Batman Mafia

[Nique]

Unfortunately, everyone's roleclaims so far are plausible... The good thing about this conflict is that we know that either Gem or Nikose is mafia. Gem hasn't acted particularly scummy and the fact that Freeze, a townie, jailed Nikose is confusing as hell... Whoever Freeze is knows something, and I think it's time they spoke up.

EDIT: FYI this is probably my only chance to post until later in the evening and I haven't decided on a solid vote yet. FOS Remains on Aldurin.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Originally Posted by P-Sleazy

What? I'm here!-ish.

Also,

VOTE: Inbred Chocobo

I don't like the way he's been "orchestrating" Nikose, Gem and Karesh all being interlinked somehow, or how if one ends up this way, then the other two must be that way. Now yes, one of the three is likely mafia, but lynching one to "prove" this is rediculous (I can't spell). Lynching one will tell us that person's role and regardless of whether it supports IC's theory or not, its probably not going to pan out. I feel like this is a way for him to make town go after atleast 2 people, waste two days (maybe even three assuming the vig doesn't hit the other two), and not get anything accomplished.

Wow, where have you been?

At bahamut, at first I was thinking of going after someone outside the Gem Karesh Nikose love triangle, but now I really don't know what I am going after. Basically lynching Nikose would be the way I would like to do about proving Nikose's, Karesh's, and Gem's claims. Since Freeze decided to jack it up where we can't Lynch Nikose, I was proposing maybe putting it off to the next day, then just lynch Nikose then.

Gem however is making some really good arguments about Nikose being able to know about the claim. Gem points out how roles are revealed if investigated (not to the degree Nikose claimed). So I am going back to

Vote: Karesh

There are two possibilities still.

The Penguin is still out there, and is one of the inactive players, and not Nikose, and just hasn't claimed, or Nikose has a list of roles that were possible in a full game of 25 people, but were left out, so he picked one from there, and wasn't included. However I doubt the second one, but the first could really dissuade me from keeping my vote on Karesh.

[Geminex]

or Nikose has a list of roles that were possible in a full game of 25 people, but were left out,

This is actually quite common! It's called a safelist, and has featured in most mafia games on the forum to date. It basically lists a bunch of roles that are as yet unclaimed, and as such gives scum the ability to roleclaim believably.

My guess is that it includes The Penguin and Clayface.

Oh, and Nique, I don't think freeze actually knows anything. I could see another investigative role bouncing around. I can't see Freeze having both day-jailer and investigative powers, though.

So either Freeze really thought that Nikose was innocent and decided to freeze him to encourage further discussion. Maybe Freeze thinks we should lynch me first, I'unno. In any case, it's just a sign that Freeze disagrees with me, not that he actually knows more than we do.

Or Freeze hit Nikose to prevent him from using any day powers, and, in the process, forgot that freezing prevents anyone from being lynched.

I honestly think that the latter might have happened, Freeze just messed up.

[Moogle0119]

Current vote count...

Karesh (5)
Hawk2
BahamutFlare
Gregness
Bard the 5th LW
Inbred Chocobo

Geminex (2)
Karesh
Aldurin

Inbred Chocobo (1)
P-Sleazy

[Inbred Chocobo]

Originally Posted by Geminex

This is actually quite common! It's called a safelist, and has featured in most mafia games on the forum to date. It basically lists a bunch of roles that are as yet unclaimed, and as such gives scum the ability to roleclaim believably.

My guess is that it includes The Penguin and Clayface.

Oh, and Nique, I don't think freeze actually knows anything. I could see another investigative role bouncing around. I can't see Freeze having both day-jailer and investigative powers, though.

So either Freeze really thought that Nikose was innocent and decided to freeze him to encourage further discussion. Maybe Freeze thinks we should lynch me first, I'unno. In any case, it's just a sign that Freeze disagrees with me, not that he actually knows more than we do.

Or Freeze hit Nikose to prevent him from using any day powers, and, in the process, forgot that freezing prevents anyone from being lynched.

I honestly think that the latter might have happened, Freeze just messed up.

Yeah but if that is the case it could Clayface is in the game, but not the Penguin. Man that would be weird, and a bit of a mindfuck but I could see it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Let's look at this. We have three obvious suspects at the moment.

Nikose - Roleclaimed as a townie with the ability to sacrifice a minion. Gem claims he is in fact Mafia.

Karesh - Roleclaimed as Nikose's minion. Suspiciously did so in the exact role that Nikose laid out as a possibility. Note that Nikose claims he knows the name of the minion, yet never actually stated it or confirmed if Karesh was it.

Gem - Roleclaimed as a one-shot PO. Says that he used his power on Nikose, turning him up on Mafia. One-shot PO suspicious roleclaim.

Possibilities:

1) Gem is correct. Nikose and Karesh are both Mafia. Nikose came up with a plausible role to deflect suspicion away from him, a fellow Mafiate stepped in to corroborate story. Likely, most probable course of events.

2) Gem is correct. Nikose is Mafia, Karesh is the SK. Nikose roleclaims plausible role, intending to leave a gap for a fellow Mafiate to fill in if suspicion falls on them. Karesh sees opportunity, steps in, Nikose is unable to claim otherwise without revealing another Mafiate. Plausible, but unlikely.

3) Roleclaims of Nikose and Karesh are accurate. Gem is Mafia or SK. Unlikely, as Gem would be lynched as soon as Nikose or Karesh were killed.

With that in mind, Vote: Karesh.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something. I too would have prefered to lynch Nik first, I admit I didn't really think before switching to Karesh after Freeze did his thing. I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him." It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

So for now,

Unvote: Karesh

Because I'm really not sure right now. Gem could be telling the truth about Nik (and it would be poor play if he was lieing really), but Nik could just have some knowledge about Kareshs role and using it to confuse us. This is why I'd have prefered to lynch Nik.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something. I too would have prefered to lynch Nik first, I admit I didn't really think before switching to Karesh after Freeze did his thing. I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him." It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

So for now,

Unvote: Karesh

Because I'm really not sure right now. Gem could be telling the truth about Nik (and it would be poor play if he was lieing really), but Nik could just have some knowledge about Kareshs role and using it to confuse us. This is why I'd have prefered to lynch Nik.

Unlikely in the extreme that Karesh is town. Even if he was exploiting a gap left by Mafiate Nikose, he would still be scum.

Have to Occam's Razor this shit when it comes to Mafia. Most likely explanation is the Gem is telling the truth, Nikose and Karesh are scum. Roleblocker unwisely took Nikose out of play, now we should kill Karesh.

If Gem is lying, we remove him tomorrow.

[Ravashak]

Didn't have too much time, so just skimmed through since I left off.
First off, Freeze... why?
Second, I'm not the Penguin, just in case anyone wondered. At this time, I don't feel like the time's quite right for me to come out and claim quite yet.
Adding to that, how likely would it be for Moogle to set up a safe claim-list for the mafia? This could explain how Nikose and Karesh would be able to make their story synch so incredibly well, if they're both mafia.

[Geminex]

Well, now I'm kinda lost, truth be told. I suppose it is actually possible that Karesh is town, and Nik somehow had some prior knowledge of roles or something.

Then do it like me. Vote for Karesh, to begin with. If another player claims penguin, reevaluate the situation. If it turns out there isn't another penguin, then I'm pretty sure that Karesh's claim loses all basis, since I very much doubt that Moogle would make a flavor text referring to another role, and then fail to include that other role in the game.

I can also see the posibility that, if Karesh does flip town and we all turn on Gem for his roleclaim causing that lynch, that he could defend himself with the argument that "it was Nikose I said was scum, not Karesh, not my fault you guys lynched him."

Dude, I have been the #1 proponent of a Karesh lynch so far. If this were a sports game, I would be sitting in the bleachers with a big-ass "KILL KARESH" banner and maybe one of those rubber foam hands reading "LYNCH THE HALF-ASS". I couldn't deny responsiblity for the Karesh lynch if I fucking tried.

It's also telling that Gem himself is no longer voting for Karesh either, and if he was totally confident he was scum he really should be.

>: ?

Originally Posted by Geminex

Given that I am p. sure that the penguin doesn't even exist in this game (guessing scum have a safelist?), I don't see how Karesh's claim can be construed as anything but scum!

Again, though, if the dude has an explanation, I will unvote him!

For now, though, Vote: Karesh

Seriously?