X Men First Class, or: an X-men movie that doesn't suck

[Nique]

Reintroduce us to the universe and characters instead of assuming we already know who and what they are and how it all works. Reintroduce the whole concept that your story is based on.

Yes, good point! In fact, didn't the first X-Men film open up with a monologue about how Mutant's were coming into existence? Something like that would have been good to add, but, obviously, in a different way.

And also that scene featuring young Erik being separated from his parents in a concentration camp that was also re-filmed shot-for-shot for First Class? Like, this film is screaming that it is trying to be present withing the same continuity as the other X-Men films when all the important parts of that are missing.

I thought it was just a prequel that ignored X3 and Wolverine Origins.

And X-Men and X2.

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Nique

And X-Men and X2.

I haven't heard that there was anything that directly contradicted those two, but I guess that makes sense. They're making sequels to X3, after all.

My hope, then, is that they do something in the sequel to First Class to make it clear that it's an alternate continuity similar to the previously mentioned Star Trek reboot.

EDIT: Hey, if Bryan Singer (the director of all the good X-men movies) is coming back for X4 and X5, and he had some badass ideas for X3 that weren't used because it was handed off to the shitty director, maybe we can hope for the reveal in X4 that it was all just a dream? Or maybe they'll pull a trick from the comic books to bring everybody back to life and just undo what happened in X3?

[Nique]

I haven't heard that there was anything that directly contradicted those two, but I guess that makes sense.

Big important chunks of Charles and Erik's entire back story presented in X-Men 1, 2, 3 AND Wolverine Origins is flatly contradicted by this movie. Unless 'First Class' sequels show the Brotherhood and the X-Men genuinely working together for a while (which based in the final conflict from this movie seems unlikely and kind of stupid) there is just no good way to merge these stories.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by Kerensky287

Either way, they introduced the universe and characters well enough, I thought - they made it clear Magneto controls metal, Charles is a telepath, etc. They also laid out the idea of mutations, the idea that the government doesn't totally know about them yet, and so on. I figure future additions will get going on the racism allegory, considering that First Class ended with Charles making sure only the mutants knew about the mutants.

And reboots don't necessarily have to have different characters, either. Judi Dench plays M both before and after Casino Royale, for example, so saying "it isn't a reboot because X actor plays Y character" doesn't make any sense.

Well it certainly doesn't ignore Origins with the Wolverine scene, since the scene makes no sense/isn't funny if we know nothing about him and chronologically it's the only movie with anything happening before this one. So no matter how much you want to ignore the bad movies in the series and pretend they don't exist at least Origins is connected to this one, which would make Origins the reboot...

As for introducing/explaining the characters there was maybe two minutes of it in the whole movie so I don't really consider it a decent explanation.

Really I like to just figure all the movies happened in this universe, just the first two were good (since I didn't like this movie very much). It would be easier for all the people who like this movie to just figure they all happened but 3 and 4 sucked. That way you don't have to try and argue why it is a reboot which just adds another negative facet to it (since it makes a really bad reboot).

Originally Posted by Nique

Big important chunks of Charles and Erik's entire back story presented in X-Men 1, 2, 3 AND Wolverine Origins is flatly contradicted by this movie

I prefer to think it just did a really poor job of establishing them as buddies. The movie goes out of its way to explain that Mystique has like super leukocytes so she ages at half the speed and that's why in the first 3 movies she's still young and so on and so forth--they seemed to be desperately trying to make it fit in with the established universe. Maybe the project started as a reboot but somebody changed their mind at some point in the process.

Whoever wrote it just screwed up on stuff. No one should be surprised...did you guys watch X-Men Origins, it was pretty bad? That this one is actually better (maybe) than that one is the real surprise, to me, anyway...

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Nique

Big important chunks of Charles and Erik's entire back story presented in X-Men 1, 2, 3 AND Wolverine Origins is flatly contradicted by this movie.

Not that I disagree, but are there any specific examples you could give? I haven't seen the good ones in ages and I've blocked out X3 and Origins due to trauma.

Originally Posted by Magus

Well it certainly doesn't ignore Origins with the Wolverine scene, since the scene makes no sense/isn't funny if we know nothing about him and chronologically it's the only movie with anything happening before this one. So no matter how much you want to ignore the bad movies in the series and pretend they don't exist at least Origins is connected to this one, which would make Origins the reboot...

As for introducing/explaining the characters there was maybe two minutes of it in the whole movie so I don't really consider it a decent explanation.

Really I like to just figure all the movies happened in this universe, just the first two were good (since I didn't like this movie very much). It would be easier for all the people who like this movie to just figure they all happened but 3 and 4 sucked. That way you don't have to try and argue why it is a reboot which just adds another negative facet to it (since it makes a really bad reboot).

The Wolverine scene was just a cameo appearance for fans of the other movies. That shit happens all the time. In the Return of the Man from U.N.C.L.E, there's a car chase in which George Lazenby shows up in a heavily modified Aston Martin with a license plate bearing "JB". It's obviously a Bond reference (Bond was played by Lazenby at the time) but the two series weren't related in any way. The cameo in First Class proves nothing.

I'd say that the entire movie was actually predicated on the development of Charles and Erik. We see Charles' youth for a tiny bit, then we see him giving an honest damn about mutants, then we see him training his allies in the use of their own powers. We see Erik ruthlessly seeking revenge, never compromising and never accepting the idea that mutants should seamlessly merge into society. Those facts are hammered in CONSTANTLY. If there's one thing this movie does especially well, it's character development, so saying that the characters "aren't explained" is just silly.

I agree that it's a terrible reboot if that's what it is (and to be honest, that's what I'm hoping it turns out to be), but right now it just sort of nebulously floats around the border of canon. In the sequel to First Class, they might flip out and do something to split off, or they might do something to solidify its position as an official prequel. I can't say much either way, and I'll withhold judgment until I hear differently.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm sure that it'd take nothing short of Cable coming on-screen and declaring it an alternate universe in the sequel to satisfy some people. Which is something I'm all for. Fuck the other movies. This movie did what we've been begging a Superman reboot to do for us: skip the origin that we already know and get to the story.

[Lumenskir]

I think people who disliked X3 didn't watch it in the ensuing years and so they forgot what they didn't like about it.

I think FX has the ability to bend time to play that movie nonstop for like 26 hours a day. They've been doing it for the past 17 years, so if you have any form of basic cable odds are good X3 has popped up at some point.

Yes, good point! In fact, didn't the first X-Men film open up with a monologue about how Mutant's were coming into existence? Something like that would have been good to add, but, obviously, in a different way.

Yes, straight voiceover, that'd be great.

I mean, I get you might have wanted something more, but Xavier's entire character before getting CIA-ed was that mutations were happening in humans and that, as in the past, there would be some conflict when the newly evolved began to clash with the old humans, Shaw repeatedly said that they were "Children of the Atom" and that the atomic age was the cause of the mutations, etc. and etc.

I mean, I'm sticking to my "Moves like a motherfucker" preference, but did we really need to present all of the 'salient' information in an infodump, rather than parceling it out?

And also that scene featuring young Erik being separated from his parents in a concentration camp that was also re-filmed shot-for-shot for First Class? Like, this film is screaming that it is trying to be present withing the same continuity as the other X-Men films when all the important parts of that are missing.

And? I like Kerensky's point, just because element X from the pre-boot movies is present doesn't mean the reboot isn't a reboot. In Star Trek, either pre-boot or reboot, Kirk hacks the unwinnable battle simulator to win, in X-Men, either pre-boot or reboot, Magneto discovers his power while attempting to free his mother from Nazis.

And further...

Nah, fuck it, I'm getting drawn into nerdery.

More important point: Does Mystique's blue form not have a vagina? What exactly was Magneto planning on doing in bed with his insistence on blueness?

[Kerensky287]

Originally Posted by Lumenskir

More important point: Does Mystique's blue form not have a vagina? What exactly was Magneto planning on doing in bed with his insistence on blueness?

I think Mystique is a shapeshifter and can therefore decide for herself whether or not to have a vagina.

It'd probably help with the whole "nudity 24/7" thing.

[Magus]

I'd say that the entire movie was actually predicated on the development of Charles and Erik. We see Charles' youth for a tiny bit, then we see him giving an honest damn about mutants, then we see him training his allies in the use of their own powers. We see Erik ruthlessly seeking revenge, never compromising and never accepting the idea that mutants should seamlessly merge into society. Those facts are hammered in CONSTANTLY. If there's one thing this movie does especially well, it's character development, so saying that the characters "aren't explained" is just silly.

They aren't explained well. They spend two minutes on it. Character development takes more time than two minutes. (BTW we see Charles

Like take Charles. Why's he such a nice guy? Why is he nice to Mystique? Just because? Maybe they should talk about how since he can read people's minds he understands why they are mad/sad/happy whatever and so he's very empathetic. I have no idea if this is why, it's just some explanation I came up with for the character. The creators don't bother.

When does Magneto begin to make the symbolic connection between being a Jew and being a mutant? Why not have a scene in his younger days when he develops this analogy? He just comes out with that analogy at some point and then at the end when the U.S. and Russians both shoot at them for "no reason" (or maybe it's because they were like you know fighting and blowing shit up and assassinating the entire crew of a ship and so on, but anyway) he's just like "You see?! I was right!"

When was Mystique first shunned because of her appearance? When did Beast take his shoes off one time? Why is Alex Summers in jail? Who the fuck is Banshee? Why is Angel a stripper, anyway? Why does Emma Frost follow Sebastian Shaw? Why do his other two cronies never say anything the entire movie? What is tornado guy's name, anyway?

I think Mystique is a shapeshifter and can therefore decide for herself whether or not to have a vagina.

It'd probably help with the whole "nudity 24/7" thing.

Except we are told nine hundred times it is her "true" form. She is a woman.

Her naked form tastefully covers her nipples/labia with scales as a cinematic affectation to make it PG-13, nothing more. In the comics she always wore a white dress, for some reason with the X-Men movies they decided it would be hotter if she was sort of naked but not really.

I mean shit she didn't even have scales in the comic, just blue skin.

EDIT:

BTW how are they "the child of the atom" when both Magneto and Shaw are both mutants before Horoshima happens? I think he was making some kind of stupid analogy, not explaining the origins of the new mutations, which presumably they were born with and which didn't appear until puberty (like with the other movies).

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Can we talk about something we probably all agree on? Like how awesome that third act was. Say what you will about the first two, but this movie delivered in the end like no other X-Men film before it.