In Other Election News: Gay Marriage Probably Legal in Three More States

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by pocheros

I also wonder at what point listing the multitude of ways in which the system is fucked means "bitter" and "cynical" instead of realistic.

Do not complain about something if you personally are unwilling to do anything to change it. If you vote against policies you disapprove of, work charity, make donations, protest, if you make an effort to do your part to try and change things feel free to voice your opinion. But a huge pet peeve of mine is watching people do nothing to actually try and make things better and complain about how "horrible things are" while they are sitting in a climate control room making posts on 500 dollar electronic devices to a global communication network.

[pochercoaster]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

Do not complain about something if you personally are unwilling to do anything to change it. If you vote against policies you disapprove of, work charity, make donations, protest, if you make an effort to do your part to try and change things feel free to voice your opinion. But a huge pet peeve of mine is watching people do nothing to actually try and make things better and complain about how "horrible things are" while they are sitting in a climate control room making posts on 500 dollar electronic devices to a global communication network.

Because informing others of how the system is fucked up isn't a part of that change? Because using your voice isn't a part of that change? Voicing dissent isn't part of change?

Because not everyone- ESPECIALLY the people who are most affected by the corruption in the government- has the ability, energy, time, or money to invest in change. Because voting and charities are just two of MANY avenues of facilitating change, and seriously broken ones at that.

Because you don't have to do anything to prove that human beings have inherent worth and shouldn't have their basic rights violated, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about it.

You know why change doesn't happen? It's cause of people going around telling people to shut up and ignoring them. If you tell people to shut up it becomes more difficult for them to find other like minded individuals and form solidarity that leads to movements that actually effect change. It's just a tactic that actually hinders change in the long run.

You don't have to do anything to prove you are worthy enough to talk about how the world's fucked, you just gotta live in it.

Edit: Also, "horrible things are" why are there scare quotes around this?

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by pocheros

Because not everyone- ESPECIALLY the people who are most affected by the corruption in the government- has the ability, energy, time, or money to invest in change. Because voting and charities are just two of MANY avenues of facilitating change, and seriously broken ones at that.

But YOU DO. You do have time and money and ability. Because unless you are at a library right now I'm guessing you have some spare cash. Internet isn't exactly free. Fact you have time to make this post at all shows you do have some spare time. Use a few of your days off to do some charity work. Donate your extra clothes. Toss a few bucks to a food drive. Take it from someone thats gotten a food donation, it will really make that family happy.

I know most of you think you dont have much, but take it from someone that grew up poor. You have ALOT. Alittle bit of sacrifice from enough people can make one families life alot better.

[pochercoaster]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

But YOU DO. You do have time and money and ability. Because unless you are at a library right now I'm guessing you have some spare cash. Internet isn't exactly free. Fact you have time to make this post at all shows you do have some spare time. Use a few of your days off to do some charity work. Donate your extra clothes. Toss a few bucks to a food drive. Take it from someone thats gotten a food donation, it will really make that family happy.

I know most of you think you dont have much, but take it from someone that grew up poor. You have ALOT. Alittle bit of sacrifice from enough people can make one families life alot better.

You are making a whole buttload assumptions about whether or not I actually participate in activist activities and what my life is like, based on no evidence. I'm not interested in making this personal and I'm not gonna trot out any of my life's hardships to prove that I'm worthy of merely having an opinion because they're ultimately irrelevant. And frankly I find it also rather tacky and distasteful.

And you're still missing my point: talking about these issues IS part of enacting change. At a VERY BASIC level, because finding likeminded individuals is the first step in forming a movement. Telling people to keep their opinions to themselves is a silencing tactic that fractures movements at their foundation.

Edit: I also don't see how pointing out problems that affect people today is taking away from anyone's ability to enjoy Obama's win. They're not mutually exclusive. Smells fishy to me.

[Grimpond]

aerozord, why are you a terrible fucking person. Speaking out is a super important thing. even if people are unable or unwilling to actually take action, simply spreading the word is a step in making the problem known enough to catch the attention of people who can and will try to do something.

Oh, and that shit here?

Do not complain about something if you personally are unwilling to do anything to change it. If you vote against policies you disapprove of, work charity, make donations, protest, if you make an effort to do your part to try and change things feel free to voice your opinion. But a huge pet peeve of mine is watching people do nothing to actually try and make things better and complain about how "horrible things are" while they are sitting in a climate control room making posts on 500 dollar electronic devices to a global communication network.

I want you to shut the fuck up because you have been doing the same god damn thing as the the rest of the people on this fucking forum for years. you have spent TIME and ENERGY committing to arguments and posts that you could have spent doing charity or donating money or traveling to third world countries to help

e: A pet peeve of mine is hypocrisy

[shiney]

aerozord, why are you a terrible fucking person.

As we have been over before, even if someone is saying something ridiculously objectionable, it is not your place to go to this level. Consider this a warning, and next time hit the reported post button before making a situation worse. I will not have this kind of BS blowing up the forum again, use the goddamn reported post button or don't post at all.

Aerozord, that's more than enough of that. Maybe you had it rough, but you make crass assumptions about people with no objective basis on their position or lives. You don't know these people any more than they know you and to assume they sit idly by and bitch and do nothing and insult them for it won't stand any more than Grim's response. Aaaaalso warned.

Keep it civil. NPF's leadership has ways of shutting this whole discussion down.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Hey Aerozord- fuck off.
Also you can totally post shit without cash. I am still bankrupt and homeless (mostly because of a combination of discrimination/putting all my time and money to causes) and I manage to post shit- free internet/computer use is literally fucking everywhere. Also computers aren't that expensive, they have blackberries in Somalia.
And even then that is not a valid counter because the most important part of progress is education, that is the sole reason we have not progressed over the last 100 years, is due to lack of education, cynical brainwashing of the populace into thinking they live in a fine, good system. So anybody speaking out against it is perfectely welcome to do so and is doing something important.

[Solid Snake]

Well, this discussion took a sour turn.

Let's get back to celebrating gay marriage being legalized in three more states, shall we? I think regardless of how fucked up or not fucked up the rest of the system is (and, let me just reiterate, I agree with the general notion that this goddamn country and this goddamn planet are fucked up)...that's worth cheering for.

[Satan's Onion]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Well, this discussion took a sour turn.

Let's get back to celebrating gay marriage being legalized in three more states, shall we? I think regardless of how fucked up or not fucked up the rest of the system is (and, let me just reiterate, I agree with the general notion that this goddamn country and this goddamn planet are fucked up)...that's worth cheering for.

Seriously, if we can't appreciate the little victories, how're we gonna motivate ourselves to do anything without being paralyzed with horror and despair? Then no-one ever gets helped, and the fact that we're the opposite of perfect becomes the enemy of the good.

Let's enjoy the fact that this tiny part of the system kind of worked a little bit, for now, if you squint and tilt your head--and let that be a white-hot blistering fire under our asses to save more people from the massive unending shit-deluge that is our system all the rest of the time. Enjoying what we got and appreciating how much more we need to get aren't mutually exclusive!

[pochercoaster]

I don't think celebrating the small victories is mutually exclusive to realizing that the system's fucked but if you take someone's valid criticisms as an obstacle to you celebrating those victories then you're making it mutually exclusive, which doesn't do a whole lot to further future victories. But this is way off topic now so...

Edit: also should be obvious but you can never be too careful so by "you" I mean "one" this isn't directed at anyone in particular