God Bless You, Bill Cosby

[Josey]

Well a good deal of the current situation might due to thuggish slang throwing rappers and badly behaved athletes being held up as the ideal black men in popular culture. When you have a culture where extremely high illegitimacy rates have wrecked havoc over the last half century the young men (and young women) pretty much have just these commercial figures to look up to as male role models. Of course, you can see this in large numbers of white kids too who are from similar situations, though there tends to be a lot more commercial variety in figures for the white kids to look up to.

[Lockeownzj00]

That was pretty lame of cosby. He's one of those rigid americans who thinks you have to be an eloquent doctor to be acceptable in his clique. Apparently, if you weren't in English J^, you clearly can not have any sort of valid viewpoint.

While I'm not too much of a fan of the quote unquote "ghetto" scene, I do think the mindset that many people have is still racist. As long as they "break the mold" I'm ok with them. I remember the Steve Biko movie I saw again, where the "liberal" white author is shown the error of his ways by the blacks, who say, "no, you do not want us to be liberated. You will feel you have freed us when we act like you. When we use forks and knives and dress in suits and ties." (paraphrasing here)

I am clearly not saying black culture = ghetto, but just like white culture has its staple concepts, so does black culture. What is wrong with that? If someone directly from china didn't use chop sticks, would you happy for them for "breaking the mold?"

I'm just saying, what if it is an entire culture? People seem to think that blacks grow up "inherently" "normal" until they are given a path and are "corrupted."

[h4x.m4g3]

Originally Posted by Lockeownzj00

That was pretty lame of cosby. He's one of those rigid americans who thinks you have to be an eloquent doctor to be acceptable in his clique. Apparently, if you weren't in English J^, you clearly can not have any sort of valid viewpoint.

While I'm not too much of a fan of the quote unquote "ghetto" scene, I do think the mindset that many people have is still racist. As long as they "break the mold" I'm ok with them. I remember the Steve Biko movie I saw again, where the "liberal" white author is shown the error of his ways by the blacks, who say, "no, you do not want us to be liberated. You will feel you have freed us when we act like you. When we use forks and knives and dress in suits and ties." (paraphrasing here)

I am clearly not saying black culture = ghetto, but just like white culture has its staple concepts, so does black culture. What is wrong with that? If someone directly from china didn't use chop sticks, would you happy for them for "breaking the mold?"

I'm just saying, what if it is an entire culture? People seem to think that blacks grow up "inherently" "normal" until they are given a path and are "corrupted."

I think you misunderstood the point of this thread. The point is not wether African-Americans have the right to be "Ghetto", but rather that the Black Community needs to stop blaming "whitey" for its problems. If African-Americans are going to act Ghetto go for it, but don't blame "The White Man" when they can't get a job because they chose to act "Ghetto" and skip school, hang out on the streets all day, and as such they can barely read. It's not whether they (we) have the right to act like we do, but wether we (they) have the right to blame others for the way we/they act.

[Lockeownzj00]

Well, in all fairness I must make my rebuttal by saying:

If Caucasians are going to act nerdy go for it, but don't blame "The Black Man" when they can't get a job because they lived in their parents' basement using irc, hang out in the dark all day, and can barely lift a book. It's not whether we have the right to act like we do, it's whether they can improve themselves to meet my standards.

[Josey]

Originally Posted by h4x.m4g3

If African-Americans are going to act Ghetto go for it, but don't blame "The White Man" when they can't get a job because they chose to act "Ghetto" and skip school, hang out on the streets all day, and as such they can barely read..

Like my previous post, I think it might be because the popular and often romanticized vision of a black person in the media today. Everyone wants to see either the a) lecherous entertainer surrounded by loose women or b) the black man struggling against the white world. You do have black lawyers and doctors on the casts of several largely white shows, but they don't seem to be able to pull in the viewers as central characters. I think that a concious change in cultural priorities would have to change before everyone can move on.

[Martyr]

I'm rethinking this...

[Illuminatus]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the "mixed but different" view of cultural mixing. I want minorities in America to maintain their individuality. Mainly because American culture sucks. But the thing is...this whole ghetto culture sucks too. IMPORTANT NOTE: There are whites, asians, latinos and native americans in the "ghetto culture:. This is not an assault on blacks.

The ghetto culture is BAD. First, I can't understand a damn thing ghetto kids say. Second, the culture encourages selfishness and ruthlessness. Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes". Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls. They're selling an image, not music.

I don't really think that was on topic, but I'm angry and I needed to say it. Bill Cosby was right, and I don't think that anyone should be criticising him for what he said. He wants black kids, not to BECOME white, but maintain their individuality while competing effectively. As he said, this cannot be done when you use phrases like "Where you at?" and "Why you ain't?"

[Lockeownzj00]

Originally Posted by Ih8stupidppl

IMPORTANT NOTE: There are whites, asians, latinos and native americans in the "ghetto culture:

True. So far.

The ghetto culture is BAD. First, I can't understand a damn thing ghetto kids say.

Hmm, you can't understand a thing they say. Funny, because I have a feeling you're exaggerating. Furthermore, if no one could understand them, they'd be dead as they would not be able to even buy food from the supermarket. The language is like any colloquial slang. It is simply more exemplified.

Second, the culture encourages selfishness and ruthlessness. Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes".

It does? Just because Puff Daddy wears a lot of jewelry, doesn't mean the rest are like that too. The ghetto culture is more about being raw and tough. While I don't think that's cool, it's just as valid as being an "intelligent" emo listener.

Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls. They're selling an image, not music.

I used to think like you. Then I realized I was thinking in the 13-year old mindset. Music is music. Stop waging wars on other music to defend what's "right." Rap is as normal as metal or ska or idm or noise (the genre, not the noun). I often hear this argument. Alright--so rap is just people cursing with a synthesizer. Then metal is just people singing while ramming a guitar. And ska is just people wiggling their hands on the guitar. IDM is just people making sounds. Jazz is just people plucking the right notes that happen to make a song. I realized a while ago that people judge how valid a music form based on how hard it is to learn it. Think about art. You don't need to be fucking Goya to be an artist. Music is the same way. If it's good, it's fine. You don't think it's good? Congrats. Don't try to invalidate it, fucker.

Note: I do not listen to rap.

I don't really think that was on topic, but I'm angry and I needed to say it. Bill Cosby was right, and I don't think that anyone should be criticising him for what he said. He wants black kids, not to BECOME white, but maintain their individuality while competing effectively. As he said, this cannot be done when you use phrases like "Where you at?" and "Why you ain't?"

They are maintaining their individuality. Just like New Found Glory is a punk's nightmare, Puff Daddy and J-Z or whatever his name is are a rapper/ghetto's nightmare. They misrepresent the people. Ghetto is not just all bling bling. While I do have pet peeves I've decided to relax my thoughts on language. Why did I ever think otherwise? Language is constantly changing. You can't make it perfect. While of course you have to saty within reasonable bounds, the only reason I correct people nowadays is not because of how "wrong" it is, it's because it's just a little pet peeve. Slang is a wonderful, constantly evolving thing, and just because you want to be a little "perfect" English scholar, doesn't mean they want to be. You don't think people in the 1600s were thinking the same thing? History repeats itself, my friend. People then were saying how corrupted the language was getting and they're saying it now, too. You can't make language a thing set in stone. It's impossible.

I think there is a very pertenent quote by Jimmy Urine of Mindless Self Indulgence that I could use here:

It is whatever we feel is going to entertain us. I don't like guys who sit there and do nothing, it is boring. I really don't give a s*** if somebody is playing well or not, it is if you are entertaining or not. I hate musicians, we all really hate musicians so it is like, if the guy is going to eat his guitar, I think that he is a much better guitarist than if he is doing an E minor 7th chord or something. It really is whatever is going to entertain us. If Steve wants to go with his little wireless system and go up to a balcony and throw a chair at me, that is fine and that is fun. If I decide I am going to drink my piss that night then that is fun and if Steve wants to join me he can. It is pretty much whatever is going to entertain us and we do try to piss people off all the time.

In another interview he goes on to say how music wars are stupid and that's why they're breaking boundaries and doing whatever the hell they want. That's open-minded, right there.

[Jagos]

Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes". Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls.

Look into a group called the Jurassic Five. Had a song on Jet Set (Grind) Radio that wasn't all about cursing or anything else of that nature.

Look into MC Chris who's a "white guy" rapping about Boba's Fette. Fave song of mine.

While I listen to more of a remixing of game songs, I do like specific artists. Their style of music doesn't matter. Yes, I'm particular to jazz beats myself. But saying that people need to rhyme one way or another (which is basically the difference in how rap and punk sound so different) without trying it out is kinda...

Yeah...

[h4x.m4g3]

Originally Posted by JC123

Look into a group called the Jurassic Five. Had a song on Jet Set (Grind) Radio that wasn't all about cursing or anything else of that nature.

Ahh yes Jurrasic 5 there Rap is awesome Rap I can actually stomach "together we'll show you how to improvise."I think I need to make one last comment Ghetto can do whatever Ghetto wants to do just don't blame anyone else. They choose the lifestyle they can live with it. They deserve to be judged on the same scale as everybody else. How many times have you seen when a black person gets arrested some old black woman always says "Why you putting another innocent Black Man in Jail, you're just continueing the cycle" Lets see how they think when that "Innocent Black Man" robs them at gunpoint. Whatever they do a crime they go to jail, we commit a crime we go to jail, all men are created equal.