Please say I'm not the only one...

[Carnivore]

Originally Posted by Ink_Blot

Scientests are growing organs in animals alot now so they have enough for the people who need it. Lets say that a baby is born with undersized lungs or a small heart. The baby can be saved because scientests grow hearts and lungs and have them ready for transplant now. Think of the mother's releif and her possible saddness if there had been no heart or lungs for transplant.

Not to quibble, but a newborn baby in need of a heart and/or lung transplant would be put onto the Level Four status. (Or Level One, for the United States.) The child would get one within a few hours. It's not the obtaining of the organs, it's the operation and recovery that are more likely to cause death.

In any event, Genetic engineering isn't bad, but it can cross the line. It makes me feel a little ill to think about eating animals engineered to have more meat. (This is why I no longer eat fast food.) However, engineering animals to be able to have organs that could potentially be used for transplantation in humans, I have to say I'm in favour of.

[RedScar]

Hmmmm. Self aware animals. That would be intreresting. However it would be impossible to comnuicate. And a lack of comunication could lead to a war. Yes a war. You were all thinking it and you know it. However if they want to learn and educate themsleves like us then were okay.

The problem with aware animals is that what do they need to be aware of? All they need to do is survive. Man(meaning humans) has created realigon, socitey, politics, blah blah blah. Animals do they need to survive. That's it. Sometimes they have a idea and invent a new tool. But what do I know.

Anyways. I think it bad to use animals for organ farms. Sure it helps us. But you have to kill the animal for the organ. It just gives us less meat off that animal. However with human cells it closer to cannnibalism.

I'm fresh of of stuff. Except for a thought. If animals became aware like us and lived a bit like us. Can you imagine the racism?

[Krylo]

Hmmmm. Self aware animals. That would be intreresting. However it would be impossible to comnuicate. And a lack of comunication could lead to a war. Yes a war. You were all thinking it and you know it. However if they want to learn and educate themsleves like us then were okay.

If they're sentient they could be taught to read. They wouldn't be able to speak, that is true, but writing and reading would be possible, if a bit difficult to teach.

The problem with aware animals is that what do they need to be aware of? All they need to do is survive. Man(meaning humans) has created realigon, socitey, politics, blah blah blah. Animals do they need to survive. That's it. Sometimes they have a idea and invent a new tool. But what do I know.

Humans created all of that AFTER we got past our need to survive. Our intelligence allowed us to create tools, or, more specifically, weapons, which made survival easy. At that point we were able to think about other things and create society and all the things that come with it.

What did homo-erectus have to be aware over?

Anyways. I think it bad to use animals for organ farms. Sure it helps us. But you have to kill the animal for the organ. It just gives us less meat off that animal. However with human cells it closer to cannnibalism.

That's assuming, with no evidence or even suggestion, that we'd eat the animals after organ farming...

I'm fresh of of stuff. Except for a thought. If animals became aware like us and lived a bit like us. Can you imagine the racism?

...True, true... but maybe furries will finally be accepted?

[Cracked But Not Broken]

Originally Posted by RedScar

Hmmmm. Self aware animals. That would be intreresting. However it would be impossible to comnuicate. And a lack of comunication could lead to a war. Yes a war. You were all thinking it and you know it. However if they want to learn and educate themsleves like us then were okay.

The problem with aware animals is that what do they need to be aware of? All they need to do is survive. Man(meaning humans) has created realigon, socitey, politics, blah blah blah. Animals do they need to survive. That's it. Sometimes they have a idea and invent a new tool. But what do I know.

Anyways. I think it bad to use animals for organ farms. Sure it helps us. But you have to kill the animal for the organ. It just gives us less meat off that animal. However with human cells it closer to cannnibalism.

I'm fresh of of stuff. Except for a thought. If animals became aware like us and lived a bit like us. Can you imagine the racism?

I just want to point out a few things about the above thread:

Animals have commmunicated with humans already, it is a domestic gorrilla they taught english and ASL (American Sign Language) and its probly smarter than some humans of the same age, so war with the animals is unlikely.

Also when you mentioned the idea for a new tool, if you were talking about humankind, w/e, but if you were talking about animals, then you know very little. Aside from homo sapiens, and smarter primates, no animal has EVER, in the history of the world, EVER make a tool. You didnt really make it clear if you were talking about humankind or animals...

And the part of killing the animal and less meat, would you rather waste a little food or cure diseases that were considered incurable... honestly.

[Thanatos]

This isn't just about organ harvesting either. It's about medical testing. Yes right now the organs that are being created are mostly hybrids and unworthy for human transplant. But there are many diseases and maladies that testing on standard animals just isn't cutting it. Think of all the medicines which have been recalled recently because we didn't know about all the long term affects. Sure no side effects were seen in animals, but that's because there organs are completely different from ours. But if we tested these medicines on animals with hybrid or fully human organs, we might get more reliable results before we proceeded to human testing.
Also I think it's despicable that they are going to kill the animals that start showing signs of humanity. Why? We are tampering with genetics, we need to deal with the consequences. If we create a new species, that species still has just as much right to existence than any other. And if these animals start showing signs of sentience, then wouldn't destroying them constitute murder?

[PyrosNine]

You know, ethically speaking our mass breeding of livestock through science is somewhat bad, and our very need for spare organs comes from our desire to be damn nigh immortal. And the reason we need all that livestock and more organs is because our tampering with god's domain has led to our rapid expansion and crowding of the world. And come to think of it, we're very unethical creatures by the large part. And maybe the animals are smarter than us because they are wholly ethical and have no need of everything we've made ourselves dependant on. If all technology were destroyed in one fell swoop, a large majority of us would be dead shortly after, yet the animals would be fine, if not better. Except for those we've messed up due to our immoral actions for our expansion. Perhaps we're not meant to live longer than our bodies were intended to, and we do not truly need more years to live a happy life? Perhaps we must learn that death is an important part of being alive, and we need not live in fear of it? We have for years sacrificed anybody weaker than ourselves for our own personal gain, citing reasons as they are unimportant or it's neccesary for our good, while in the long run we're making our downfall. Eventually someone will take the initiative and go past the legal boundaries that have been set, and it'll either be the world's biggest blunder or we'll praise him as a hero, but it'll still be a bad move. Animals are made to die for us when we need them to survive, but truly and in the long run, we do not need the large quantities we use today, and we do not need to live that extra 30 years.

I am not an overly good person, I eat McDonalds and degrade myself in endless ways like everyone else, but I just want to say; we could at least try to stop the decline of our civilization, instead of citing it as an advancement. Cause one of these days it's going to bite the hand that's fed it for all these years. And it's going to take a rather unhealthy chunk out of us.

In short, I believe that science creating organs in animals for us humans is part of the worlds greatest evils, and i hope we'll one day rise above it. I can't do more than hope, I'm not very important, but at least I can say what I think.

(Addition Btw, Why do we worry about killing things that have "intelligience" when it's things with "intelligence" that can think up incredibly stupid things like atom bombs?)

[RedScar]

Originally Posted by Cracked But Not Broken

I just want to point out a few things about the above thread:

Animals have commmunicated with humans already, it is a domestic gorrilla they taught english and ASL (American Sign Language) and its probly smarter than some humans of the same age, so war with the animals is unlikely.

Also when you mentioned the idea for a new tool, if you were talking about humankind, w/e, but if you were talking about animals, then you know very little. Aside from homo sapiens, and smarter primates, no animal has EVER, in the history of the world, EVER make a tool. You didnt really make it clear if you were talking about humankind or animals...

And the part of killing the animal and less meat, would you rather waste a little food or cure diseases that were considered incurable... honestly.

First off. I've heard off the gorrilla. How ever did he carry out conversation or even complex conversation? Even if he knows the langue he has to know what the words mean. I do not know, please tell.

Now actually there are no animals that have made tools, but there are animals that have used tools. Like monkeys useing sticks to get bugs of of a stump.

On the lesas meat thing I didn't really mind haveing less meat. I just pointed that out, as it would reasult from it. After all not many people like liver.

PyrosNine, thank you. I've said this to people(not on the boards but in outer world). And they don't belive me. I would have put it here but it thought the same might happen. I mean whats wrong will animals being smarter than us. Humans only use 10% of thier brain. Could you imagine what we could do with just 50%? Ya I think the animals can be smarter.

Also the total wipe out of technollogy. That's why you learn to survive with tools. Personlly I'd like to live on just my own by a lake in northern Us, mabye southern Canada. It'd be a good learning experiance.

and last but not least. Do you think animals have multipule lanugues with in thier races? Humans have English, Japanesse, Spanish, ect. Do you think animals of diffrent regions have diffrent lanugues?

[PyrosNine]

The method of saying the words is different, but they speak one unified language, kinda. It's mostly their good way of expressing emotions or implying things. Like if you walk up to a dog and it growls at you, you know it's saying "Stay away!"

[Cracked But Not Broken]

Originally Posted by RedScar

First off. I've heard off the gorrilla. How ever did he carry out conversation or even complex conversation? Even if he knows the langue he has to know what the words mean. I do not know, please tell.

The deal with knowing a language IS understanding the words RedScar, they taught it English, and how to understand it, Primates have very advanced brains you know.

Originally Posted by RedScar

Now actually there are no animals that have made tools, but there are animals that have used tools. Like monkeys useing sticks to get bugs of of a stump.

Which would be why I said primates, which would include monkeys.

Originally Posted by Me

Aside from homo sapiens and smarter primates,

see I said it...

[Sato]

Here is my take on this:

1. If we eat the animal and respect the animal, I am okay.
2. No stem cells or stem cell manipulation. I am not killing human babies for mice to walk.
3. The organs will be used for good help for people and promote the common good.
4. We don't tamper with the sheep minds and make them self-aware and give them a soul and humanity. If we did hopefully on accident, they get full human rights.