Homestuck Mafia Thread

[Aldurin]

Ok, I thought they were already dragging the debate outside for a moment (I thought it'd be cool as long as the log was posted) and I put in a bit of what we already know.

I get it, no more discussions outside of here.

[rpgdemon]

I posted the log since it started straying from Fenris and I going, "I posted" to heckling, which might have been relevant.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

Alright, well, dick move Snake. ):< Making players thrust into an unwinnable situation based on a double random chance (Randomly getting chosen, randomly not being given the right description) thing that they have no control over is not good design.


##unvote: P-Sleazy

But you know what? I don't want to believe this is an unwinnable situation. I am not changing my vote to me. I DEFY anyone to come out and be John Egbert. Who wants to prove their accusations right, that I was taking refuge in audacity, by pretending to be the main character of Homestuck?

If it were true, why didn't you come out and say it at first, when I first came out and said I was Egbert, when I thought we were supposed to RP this thing?

See if anyone pops out to say that they're me. Wait on the lynch at least until then. If they do, they prove themselves as scum come the lynch, if I'm a townie. Or, if I'm not a townie, they can easily resolve and clarify this situation, at no risk to themselves. If no one comes out and says that they're Egbert, I think that's telling enough by itself. I highly doubt that you guys would think the main character role of Homestuck would be left blank, or left to be a safe character for a scum to pretend to be. Heck, there are exactly three characters who would make sense to be bulletproofs.

1) John Egbert.
2) Vriska.
3) Aradia.

All three of them, through shenanigans in story, reached a state where they can only be killed heroically or justly. If any of those three come out and say that their identity is one of those three characters, I'll self lynch, and you have an immediate target who is scum, once you see that I'm a townie. If none of them come out and say anything, well, that offers credence to my story, wouldn't it?

I defy one of those three to come out as TOWN Bulletproof.

If I'm lying, and they are one of these three characters, coming out costs them nothing, as the Mob still can't target them, -and- they get to prove themselves to be innocent, come next lynch, if I'm scum. If I'm a townie though, and telling the truth, no scum would dare take their name, as they'd identify themselves.

Lets just say I got all the luck.

All of it.

[rpgdemon]

Alright, fair enough.

I'll go by my word. VINDICATION.

##vote: RPGDemon

[Bard The 5th LW]

To specify, I am Vriska Serket, Town Bulletproof. Power came back on by the way.

[rpgdemon]

(I still vote that you Vigilante kill Aldurin, P-Sleazy.)

[Solid Snake]

RULES CLARIFICATION TIME:

I'm not going to Modkill three of you for 'breaking the rules' or anything (even though I find myself somewhat tempted) and I guess my rules weren't as explicit as they should have been in defining 'communications outside the game regarding this topic' but damn, let me make this clear, as something that should be true from now on:

1: No talking about the Mafia games among live players in the chatroom, period. Hell I don't even want dead players chatting about the game because live players could always show up and learn stuff. But if you're alive you have to do all communications in this thread, where everyone can read them and where I can feel assured that you're following the rules, because I may not end up with a record of everything said in the chat.

2: I don't care in what context you're talking about the Mafia game, if you're someone who is still alive, ALL COMMUNICATION OF ANY SORT involving the game should be in this topic, where everyone in Town can see it. And no, promising to make a log after the fact is not a permissible excuse.

3: Only exceptions are:
A: If your role explicitly provides you can communicate with someone else (and even then, you don't talk in a public chatroom, but instead over private PMs or IMs);
B: If you're dead and ONLY if you're dead, you can talk privately (or PM, IM, or someplace where there's no chance an alive player can read your thoughts) with either another dead player (though you should probably ask the Host for confirmation that the other dead player cannot be revived before doing so) or anyone not involved in the Mafia game.
C: Communications between you and the Host.

All of these exceptions require private communications. Not chatrooms. Never chatrooms.

This frankly should be a rule in all Mafia games, but I obviously can't enforce that. At the very least, it's going to be a rule in any I happen to run. Future infractions, if proven to me, will result in Modkills (if crucial information regarding your role is leaked) or Replacements (if crucial information is not leaked.)

In this case I'd have to go the Replacement route, and I'm not in the mood to replace three of our more active players just because I wasn't as explicit as I apparently should have been in something I erroneously assumed would be intuitively understood.

[rpgdemon]

Sorry about that, in any case. I figured Fenris and I going back and forth essentially saying that we've posted would be fine, but then we strayed a bit from heckling about playing the game to heckling about the game, so I figured it ought to be posted visibly.

[Solid Snake]

Oh welp my entire post there has just been rendered largely irrelevant.

RPGDemon stood, falsely accused, wearing GARMENTS IN BLUE that friend and foe alike apparently COULD NOT SEE. "I'm John," he said, though no one appeared to BELIEVE him. "Don't you recognize me? I'm your friend! I'm John," he cried again. Yet the voices in the chorus of lynchers refuted him at every turn, and the young boy who had once been so optimistic and brave found himself losing his confidence with every insult slung against him.

Finally, he decided he could not take the pain and the suffering anymore. "I am no abductor! I'm John! Remember me?" He cried, yet still to no avail. I should have expected this, he thought. Karkat is dead, he's gone, he was one of my closest friends, he can't protect me anymore. Feferi and Nepeta, they'd never turn against me, they were too sweet and kind, but these others...
...these others included harsher and sterner folks, and those who could not recognize him.

"I'm John and I'll prove it!" He shouted. Yes, he thought. Killing myself is drastic, but I've suffered death before, and I've always come back. I'm immortal now. And suicide is never 'Just.' It is a loophole.
He threw himself into the arms of his accusers. "Lynch me. Do it." I will protect my friends. My death will spare theirs. I have no regrets. This is what Cameron Poe would do.

And so he DIED, killed by his own hand, in either a reckless move of folly that demanded a JUST DEATH or a brave move of self-sacrifice that was TOO HEROIC. Either way, his death was permanent, and the HEIR OF BREATH drew his last.

rpgdemon has DIED. He was John Egbert, TOWN Bulletproof.

Votes:
[6] rpgdemon: Fenris, Aldurin, Moogle0119, Bard, P-Sleazy, RPGDemon
[0] P-Sleazy: (rpgdemon)

Survivors:

2. Moogle0119
4. Fenris
6. Aldurin
7. Bard the 5th
8. Revolving Ocelot / Karesh
9. Mr. Bookworm
12. Smarty
13. P-Sleazy
14. Lumenskir

The Dead:
[N1] greed: Karkat Vantas, TOWN Vanilla
[D2] Thadius: Equius Zahhak, TOWN (Strong) Vanilla
[D3] Sifright: Feferi Peixes, TOWN Doctor
[D4] Inbred Chocobo: Nepeta Leijon, TOWN Vanilla
[D5] RPGDemon: John Egbert, TOWN Bulletproof

The Missing:
[N3] Ryanderman: [??]

Night will last until 3:00AM Thursday the 18th, (if necessary.)

[Solid Snake]

Welp, no sense in delaying what cannot be prevented.

The Scumteam has chosen to kill Smarty McBarrelpants, who was Wayward Vagabond, TOWN Mayor.
No presently existing Town Role could do anything to stop this kill, and the kill brings Scum to 50/50 with Town, meaning Town cannot get a lynch off as scum can block the lynch, meaning Mafia wins the game.

Fenris wins! He was Hegemonic Brute, SCUM Abductor.
P-Sleazy wins! He was Courtyard Droll, SCUM Godfather.
Lumenskir wins! (Even the inactive have their day.) He was Draconian Dignitary, SCUM Roleblocker.
Bard the 5th LW wins! He was Jack Noir, SCUM Bulletproof Jack of All Trades.

Ryanderman's missing body has been RECOVERED. He was Sollux Captor, TOWN Inventor.

Moogle0119 was Windswept Questant, TOWN Vanilla.
Aldurin was Terezi Pyrope, TOWN Cop.
Karesh was Rose Lalonde, TOWN Miller.
Mr. Bookworm was Peregrine Mendicant, TOWN Postman.

I have a few additional notes regarding roles and a vast array of criticisms to make at Town for basically granting Mafia a flawless victory, but the single biggest thing that hurt town was inactivity. Put simply, major Town roles were either inactive or refused to act at the worst possible times. Even many of you who were quite active really never participated or fished for claims or information throughout the Days, essentially leading to a series of lynches where one of the first and only persons suspected was inevitably going to be lynched by a very small minority of the potential votes. Two or three people should never single-handily decide a lynch.

A few Quick Hits before I go to bed:

* The Abductor role enabled the scumteam alone to learn the identity of the abducted target. I actually thought they'd use it N1 so they could quickly claim the role of the person abducted, but Scum's plan worked out quite well for them, as evidenced by Fenris' ploy. I can't believe Fenris successfully goaded RPGDemon into giving up and killing himself, and I can't believe no one questioned the possibly Fenris was lying when Ryanderman had been abducted.

* Smarty McBarrelpants was given a gift in the form of an Invention that he never used. For the life of me, I'll never understand why he never used it (given he had two nights to do so in which he was not targeted, and the device would have yielded ample information) and I won't understand why he didn't come off immensely skeptical of Fenris' Inventor claim because the nature of Fenris' 'Inventions' completely contradicted the nature of the 'Gift' Smarty was given. I wouldn't have personally had two Townie Inventors running around giving gifts.

* Furthermore, Aldurin as Cop had successfully scanned Bard GUILTY and I was so certain that Aldurin was going to lead a Bard lynch after that scan that I began seeking replacements under the assumption the game would last a bit longer. I can't believe Fenris' gambit got Aldurin off a lynch possibility he had to have been almost certain would flip scum. Aldurin had also scanned several innocents, including Thadius (who he let get lynched anyway, though I don't blame him for not revealing he was a Cop at the time) and P-Sleazy (sadly P-Sleazy was Godfather, meaning his 'ability' was scanning Innocent to the Cop.)

* Fenris' Inventor as was described was way too powerful; I'd never have let it into one of my Mafia games. (Obviously Fenris would likely disagree.)

* The first No-Kill was actually prevented by some shrewd play by the Doctor, Sifright, who successfully predicted scum would go after Karesh (the new guy) and got lynched for his troubles. I still don't understand why Sifright didn't claim Doctor before he was lynched as even if he'd be setting himself for an inevitable Nightkill he'd still, in the process of preventing Town from lynching a claim they'd never lynch, ensure a greater likelihood that Scum was lynched, creating an even one-for-one trade.

* Second No-Kill at Night was just scumteam being lazy. Half of Town Power and no Scum Members submitted actions that 'Night.'

* I allowed Smarty's role to Mayor himself, as some Mayors (or Governors) can do just that, which probably explained why he did, in fact, act scummy enough D1 to Mayor himself.

* RPGDemon your role of all roles was absolutely the one role you weren't supposed to make any references to D1; Scum won't target you if they have any reason whatsoever to suspect you might be Bulletproof and as a temp-Bulletproof townie you want Scum to waste a shot on you, that is the entire utility of your role! The intended strategy for Town Bulletproofs is to act like you're Cop or Doc and lure a Scum 'kill' that goes nowhere.

* As I alluded to before way too many of you simply didn't submit Night Actions, and that killed Town in particular as the game was really balanced with the intent that you actually used your Actions. Ryanderman told me that he wanted to 'save' his Inventions, but saving them would be for naught if he got lynched or nightkilled before he gave them out, the odds actually most favored him giving it to Townies in the earliest Nights. Instead the Inventor only gave out one Invention before he was offed...to a Townie who was apparently inactive and thus never used the Invention that could have torn the game wide open if it was used.

...Oh, and I should specify that the Inventor role in this game could not give his three available Inventions (one Vig shot, one Tracking device, one Flavor Scanning device) to himself. That probably clarifies my criticism there somewhat. While the Vig Shot would have been deadly if Ryanderman accidentally gave it to scum, the other two devices had no real utility if they were given to a scummate by accident instead of a Townie, so Ryanderman, you really should have given both of those out ASAP, and then claimed Inventor after you gave out all three Inventions.

In addition, the Postman's role was to deliver 'Mail' and, in doing so, essentially become Confirmable and avoid lynches by giving 'Mail' to as many Townies as possible, who'd then back his story the moment he claimed. PM (in Homestuck) is clearly a pro-town role, after all. But Mr. Bookman didn't even deliver Mail at all one 'night', and he delivered mail to P-Sleazy twice in a row. While the Postman Role also enabled the Postman to see whether the visited person 'got up' and took action at Night, this wouldn't be distinguishable as to whether it meant the person was Town Power or Scum; it's great for catching lying Scum who claim 'Nillas in the endgame, but earlier on, the primary use of the Postman role was to become confirmable and effectively unlynchable by sending out as many letters to as many Townies as possible.

* The remaining fun little tidbit is Thadius' role as Equius. His flavor text in the PM I sent him deliberately suggested the fact that there was more than one might guess to his role.
In fact as 'Strong' Vanilla Equius actually became a Revenger if Inbred Chocobo (who was Nepeta) died before him. If you read Homestuck you might understand the reasoning. As Revenger, Thadius would be informed after Inbred died that, if Thadius was then lynched or nightkilled, he'd kill someone with him. If he was lynched, he could choose to kill any one person on his lynch. (Like a bomb.) If he was nightkilled, he automatically killed his killer unless Jack Noir (who could not be nightkilled) submitted the kill.

But the additional quirk to the role was 'hidden,' and was only revealed after Inbred died before Thadius did. I implied secret hidden information to Thadius by deliberately leaving part of his flavor blank and hinting that Equius had more abilities than were initially assumed.

* Inbred Chocobo you were right on like 80% of your hunches but man, half the game is about being charismatic enough to actually convince everyone else that you're on to something. There were many times where I wanted you to be more aggressive, Town really needed a leader to take the reins and ask tough questions.

* As to scum roles: I already explained Fenris' role. Bard basically could not be killed at Night (in essence this part of Bard's role was intended to deceive Scum into assuming there was a Vig, but in fact Bard was also protected from the Vig Kill Invention the Inventor could give out as well as Thadius' potential Revenger Kill.) Bard also had two one-use abilities, a Bus Driver Swap ability (which he used on RPGDemon and Fenris on a night when it had absolutely no impact) and an even stronger ability used on the dead that was never actually used.
Lumenskir could roleblock any townie from using their Power role but, in practice, Lumenskir was just as inactive as half of Town was, so Roleblocking never became much a thing as I had originally anticipated.
P-Sleazy had no active abilities but simply scanned INNOCENT to the Cop.

Finally the way I ran Scumteam was that any member of Scumteam could submit the kills, but whoever submitted a night's kill could not utilize another active action. (And whoever submitted the kill could be tracked and was in danger of being caught by an Invention or the Postman or whatever fictional things Scumteam feared.) That's the way Scumteams have operated on the other board where I've frequently played Mafia, and I prefer that setup over others.

I actually have even more comments to dole out but I'll leave it at this for now and see how y'all react. Congrats to Mafia faction for really whipping Town a new one this game, though I'll always think of this one as one that Town let themselves lose.