OH GOD BIOWARE WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONE - Page 34

Kim · 02-14-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramary

I just want a collection on steam or a HD re-release or something like that.

Okay, sorry, I misunderstood.

Anywho, blaming FFXIV on Squeenix seems unfair, since they weren't the only ones developing, did have some good ideas, and then made the game free to play for everyone who bought it for like an ENTIRE year while working nonstop to fix it and even completely getting rid of the old team that worked on it. XIII is a slightly different issue, but the reason I advocated supporting XIII-2 is because it actually took an honest look at what XIII did wrong and didn't make those mistakes.

Plus, like I said, even if you don't wanna get XIII-2 just get any other game you think you should support. That was also a thing I said with my mouth words in my post.

Ramary · 02-15-2012, 03:30 PM

Just played the demo.

Holy crap that was pretty damn bad.

But it is out now so I guess you can all play it now anyway.

Darth SS · 02-15-2012, 03:44 PM

So, I just witnessed a rather stupid discussion on campus. And I'm forced to ask this mostly because I don't want to read through the whole thread again.

Why are people so mad about Vega and Ashley?

I keep hearing "They just made Ashley into a bimbo!" and "Vega's just a jersey shore styled monkey!" But...I don't get why this opinion exists.

Kim · 02-15-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth SS

So, I just witnessed a rather stupid discussion on campus. And I'm forced to ask this mostly because I don't want to read through the whole thread again.

Why are people so mad about Vega and Ashley?

I keep hearing "They just made Ashley into a bimbo!" and "Vega's just a jersey shore styled monkey!" But...I don't get why this opinion exists.

The changes to Ashley's look are pretty substantial and awful, and while I'm against saying, "They turned her into a bimbo," I can sympathize with being unhappy about those changes.

Vega's not really a Jersey Shore styled monkey as much as he is an escaped shaved gorilla. He's probably going to be boring as fuck by Mass Effect standards, but this is actually pretty normal for human characters in Mass Effect, so I'm pretty indifferent to his existence and don't see much merit in complaining about him.

Solid Snake · 02-15-2012, 04:03 PM

I really appreciated Ashley's tomboyish look and demeanor in ME1 because, in tandem with her status as a Soldier (the strongest class in terms of raw physicality) while Kaidan was the comparatively weak Sentinel, it subverted gender norms. It was cool to think in the future men and women would be on such equal footing that some women could be the stronger, more physically capable, tough grunts on the frontlines while some men would do the electrical / magical / specialty stuff behind the scenes. Even most science fiction stories would tend to avoid that.

And despite her racism against aliens, Ashley's a surprisingly nuanced character in ME1 if you can look beyond the intolerance. She quotes poetry, but still has an exceptional amount of badass stories of valor to share. Her interactions with Shepard are more complex than Shepard's interactions with many other squadmates.

I think there was a nice balancing act going on where Ashley was still clearly and unequivocally a woman, but at the same time, they gave her a decent amount of dialogue that's traditionally only spoken by male characters in these kinds of games. Usually, the women are always tolerant and understanding and it's up to the male characters to carry the shades-of-grey nuances; Ashley's one of the few female love interests I can recall offhand who actually has serious weaknesses and flaws, which differentiates herself nicely from Liara and Tali, who both come across as a bit too perfect sometimes, as female love interests in RPGs written by heterosexual men often do.

Don't get anything I've said wrong, Ashley isn't one of my favorite ME characters and I have no particular attachments to her. Compared to most the other human characters in the series, though, she's actually fairly well done.

I have no idea whether Ashley's characterization will be ruined in ME3 or not. The design seems to erode some of Ashleys tomboyish appeal; I actually thought Ashley's design was more attractive in ME1 (but then again, I have an affinity for tomboys with shorter hairstyles.) It's possible Ashley's still tough as nails on the battlefield, in which case I probably won't mind the redesign. It's hard for me to remain optimistic given all the evidence I have regarding the haphazard way Bioware's approached ME3 as a cohesive whole, though.

Ramary · 02-15-2012, 04:09 PM

New Ashley is ugly to me the same way Miranda was ugly to me.

They both look so fake, if that makes sense.

Darth SS · 02-15-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I have no idea whether Ashley's characterization will be ruined in ME3 or not. The design seems to erode some of Ashleys tomboyish appeal; I actually thought Ashley's design was more attractive in ME1 (but then again, I have an affinity for tomboys with shorter hairstyles.) It's possible Ashley's still tough as nails on the battlefield, in which case I probably won't mind the redesign. It's hard for me to remain optimistic given all the evidence I have regarding the haphazard way Bioware's approached ME3 as a cohesive whole, though.

This is the part that kept running through my head. I don't know why this notion exists that because her uniform/costume/gym clothes now features a deep v in her shirt that automatically she must have lost all value as a character. To compress it more, it's like "prettier"=no character. And I just don't get why that assumption has been made, especially about a game that isn't even out yet.

And with Vega...the game isn't out yet and a lot of people already hate him, and I just don't get it. Yeah, he's built the forgotten love child of Alistair Overeem and an angry rhinoceros. So what? Maybe he'll turn out to be a really interesting and compelling character. Perhaps he'll have some storyline where they reveal how unsettled he is by combat, and how he doesn't want to be a soldier and he'll become one of the most empathetic of NPC's. Maybe he'll punch through a reaper's head. Why don't people wait for a game to be out before they start freaking out?

Marc v4.0 · 02-15-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth SS

Why don't people wait for a game to be out before they start freaking out?

Takes too much effort to be reasonable

Kim · 02-15-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth SS

To compress it more, it's like "prettier"=no character.

That's an oversimplification. If you change a character to be more visually appealing, there's no reason to think you won't change them to be more "appealing" in other ways. If you're changing them to be more appealing to the lowest common denominator among heterosexual male gamers, what personality changes you make to go along with that will likely be to further appeal to that demographic. Even if the end result is a "good" character, it's exactly the sort of character that is awful in its overuse and omnipresence in popular culture and a symptom of everything I hate about gaming.

Also: Heterosexual male gaze is fucking awful and I want it to die and I would be very happy to see EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT to appeal to them ever die in a fucking fire.

Quote:

Why don't people wait for a game to be out before they start freaking out?

Because they're fucking expensive.

Aerozord · 02-15-2012, 06:18 PM

to be fair you can have a good character still dress like a whore. It can be used as a way to convey certain personality or background traits so it in and of itself isn't bad. The issue is that normally that isn't why they do it, they normally do it to appeal to a demographic on a very shallow level.

Though I think Bioware putting Jack in what barely counts as a top was a valid reason. She cares little for others opinion of her and thinks of sex as primarily just a simple carnal diversion. She dressed how you'd expect someone like her to dress.

So while, as a rule there isn't a good reason to put a female character in a revealing outfit, you still cant determine its validity until you see how the character is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz

Because they're fucking expensive.

so dont buy it until you get some reviews of it. Not like day one is the only time to get it

02-15-2012, 04:03 PM	#335
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	I really appreciated Ashley's tomboyish look and demeanor in ME1 because, in tandem with her status as a Soldier (the strongest class in terms of raw physicality) while Kaidan was the comparatively weak Sentinel, it subverted gender norms. It was cool to think in the future men and women would be on such equal footing that some women could be the stronger, more physically capable, tough grunts on the frontlines while some men would do the electrical / magical / specialty stuff behind the scenes. Even most science fiction stories would tend to avoid that. And despite her racism against aliens, Ashley's a surprisingly nuanced character in ME1 if you can look beyond the intolerance. She quotes poetry, but still has an exceptional amount of badass stories of valor to share. Her interactions with Shepard are more complex than Shepard's interactions with many other squadmates. I think there was a nice balancing act going on where Ashley was still clearly and unequivocally a woman, but at the same time, they gave her a decent amount of dialogue that's traditionally only spoken by male characters in these kinds of games. Usually, the women are always tolerant and understanding and it's up to the male characters to carry the shades-of-grey nuances; Ashley's one of the few female love interests I can recall offhand who actually has serious weaknesses and flaws, which differentiates herself nicely from Liara and Tali, who both come across as a bit too perfect sometimes, as female love interests in RPGs written by heterosexual men often do. Don't get anything I've said wrong, Ashley isn't one of my favorite ME characters and I have no particular attachments to her. Compared to most the other human characters in the series, though, she's actually fairly well done. I have no idea whether Ashley's characterization will be ruined in ME3 or not. The design seems to erode some of Ashleys tomboyish appeal; I actually thought Ashley's design was more attractive in ME1 (but then again, I have an affinity for tomboys with shorter hairstyles.) It's possible Ashley's still tough as nails on the battlefield, in which case I probably won't mind the redesign. It's hard for me to remain optimistic given all the evidence I have regarding the haphazard way Bioware's approached ME3 as a cohesive whole, though. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

02-15-2012, 03:30 PM	#332
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	Just played the demo. Holy crap that was pretty damn bad. But it is out now so I guess you can all play it now anyway.

02-15-2012, 04:09 PM	#336
Ramary HE OPENS THE DOOR TO HIS DARK PAST Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Some craphole Posts: 770	New Ashley is ugly to me the same way Miranda was ugly to me. They both look so fake, if that makes sense.