Another Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[POS Industries]

Maybe I and tons of other people have been saying the same thing for years. Still, nice of him to put it in print and make a name for himself off the idea.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I'm not very impressed by the guy in that article. First of all, I don't think it's right to say godly creation and multiverse...ism are equally baseless. It's true that they both posit that there's something operating outside of anything we've ever observed (and might even be inherently unobservable by definition), but one is lawful and the other isn't. An intelligence that creates the universe, if it itself is governed by laws, is pointless; why bother assuming such a thing exists, when we can simply have unthinking, spontaneous laws themselves create universes? An intelligence whose thoughts do not happen as the result of any laws is obviously lawless; such an idea is basically equivalent to saying that the universe was created for no reason.

Also, this, which seems pretty central, makes no sense to me:

What we're saying is that as we go back into the past, there are many, many quantum histories that could have led up to this point. And the existence of observers today will select a subset of those histories which will inevitably, by definition, lead to the existence of life. Now, I don't think anybody would really dispute that fact.

This just plain seems contradictory (that's quantum physics for ya, huh?). In one sentence he says a large number of possibilities could have led up to what we see now, and in the next he says the situation is so unique there could have only been one set of events. Huh? Is something just not clicking for me?

The whole computer thing just seems like a case of faulty analogy. And I can't really comment on his use of purpose and meaning, because he's so vague about what he means by them, but it makes me uncomfortable... At the least it seems misleading.

[Corraiv]

nobody is an atheist on their death bed.
i wish you luck with that, i really, really do

[ArlanKels]

*Ahem*

...




Jesus is the son of the Devil.


Why do I say this?

:Exhibit (A):
The Virgin Mary was forcefully impregnated against her will. Why would a caring God who allows people to make their own decisions force this upon her? That makes no sense.

:Exhibit (B):
Jesus liked whores(Or so I hear, is this actually false?), and thus is...well..not so holy looking is he?

:Exhibit (C):
Jesus ended up gathering a large amount of followers and worshippers. God says to only worship him, but Jesus has people worshipping himself.

:Exhibit (D):
Jesus heals people of their injuries and so on and so forth. These are injuries of self-infliction due to their choices in life, or something brought upon them by God. Why would God want Jesus changing that around?

I'm certain there's more.
And please try to not laugh too hard.

[42PETUNIAS]

So it's the devil who wants us to be peaceful, and not harm one another? Or are you just pointing out some flaws in christianity?

Originally Posted by Corraiv

nobody is an atheist on their death bed.
i wish you luck with that, i really, really do

I'd be willing to guess that at least half of the people who've posted on this thread, (sorry if I'm far off of this), aren't religious or are atheists. In light of this, you might want to rethink your comment.

[ZAKtheGeek]

nobody is an atheist on their death bed.
i wish you luck with that, i really, really do

Translation: When nothing matters anymore, nothing matters anymore.

[Corraiv]

i'm not rethinking any comment, friend. i don't live or die to please people.

i mean this with the deepest sincerity. i don't know how atheists do it.
i find them to be unimaginably brave.

all i know is if you know you're dying(and the death rate is pretty close to 100% for mankind last time i checked) and you can stay confidently, unwaveringly an atheist i have no choice but to admire your bravery. right or wrong.

if you want real Christianity, don't look to your friends or people you meet even if they call themselves Christian. They make mistakes, they're only people. What did you think they were, saints? No. And like them, I'm human, i'm mortal, I will die and sometime after I die my body will rot away, maybe i shall be eaten by worms and such.

I truly empathize with those of you disillusioned by organized religion(I have been there myself), but don't let that deter you from investigating things for yourself. Honest to God I can never go back. Before Christ I was neck-deep in shit, depressed, suicidal(yes, i've attempted), hopeless, lonely, and most of all lost and without purpose. All the meaning of life was for me was chasing skirts and making ends meet. Meaningless, meaningless, meaningless.
I looked for answers in the Tao Te Ching, the Vedantas, searching for God where he just wasn't. I had a Barnes & Noble gift certificate, so I said "What the heck" and ordered a New Testament online. It hit me like a brick. I continued to live my meaningless life.
Then it just built up, until one day I just broke down. One night in bed, after feeling I was in the lowest of lows, I sobbed for hours, and finally just accepted Jesus as savior. I hope if you imagined a scowl behind my computer screen that you now realize I'm speaking very sincerely and with true empathy and concern, and most of all, I hope, with love.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that the universe is centered around love. and God is love.

It brings to mind this quote:
"See Christ and you are Christian-- All else is talk."

[42PETUNIAS]

Originally Posted by Corraiv

i'm not rethinking any comment, friend. i don't live or die to please people.

I just meant that your comment sounded like you thought of atheists as being in the extreme minority here, which is not the case.

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by Corraiv

i'm not rethinking any comment, friend. i don't live or die to please people.

i mean this with the deepest sincerity. i don't know how atheists do it.
i find them to be unimaginably brave.

all i know is if you know you're dying(and the death rate is pretty close to 100% for mankind last time i checked) and you can stay confidently, unwaveringly an atheist i have no choice but to admire your bravery. right or wrong.

if you want real Christianity, don't look to your friends or people you meet even if they call themselves Christian. They make mistakes, they're only people. What did you think they were, saints? No. And like them, I'm human, i'm mortal, I will die and sometime after I die my body will rot away, maybe i shall be eaten by worms and such.

I truly empathize with those of you disillusioned by organized religion(I have been there myself), but don't let that deter you from investigating things for yourself. Honest to God I can never go back. Before Christ I was neck-deep in shit, depressed, suicidal(yes, i've attempted), hopeless, lonely, and most of all lost and without purpose. All the meaning of life was for me was chasing skirts and making ends meet. Meaningless, meaningless, meaningless.
I looked for answers in the Tao Te Ching, the Vedantas, searching for God where he just wasn't. I had a Barnes & Noble gift certificate, so I said "What the heck" and ordered a New Testament online. It hit me like a brick. I continued to live my meaningless life.
Then it just built up, until one day I just broke down. One night in bed, after feeling I was in the lowest of lows, I sobbed for hours, and finally just accepted Jesus as savior. I hope if you imagined a scowl behind my computer screen that you now realize I'm speaking very sincerely and with true empathy and concern, and most of all, I hope, with love.

It's funny. Seemingly, we've been in similar situations, and came out totally different.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that the universe is centered around love. and God is love.

He has a funny way of showing it, honestly.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I truly empathize with those of you disillusioned by organized religion(I have been there myself), but don't let that deter you from investigating things for yourself. Honest to God I can never go back. Before Christ I was neck-deep in shit, depressed, suicidal(yes, i've attempted), hopeless, lonely, and most of all lost and without purpose. All the meaning of life was for me was chasing skirts and making ends meet. Meaningless, meaningless, meaningless.
I looked for answers in the Tao Te Ching, the Vedantas, searching for God where he just wasn't. I had a Barnes & Noble gift certificate, so I said "What the heck" and ordered a New Testament online. It hit me like a brick. I continued to live my meaningless life.
Then it just built up, until one day I just broke down. One night in bed, after feeling I was in the lowest of lows, I sobbed for hours, and finally just accepted Jesus as savior. I hope if you imagined a scowl behind my computer screen that you now realize I'm speaking very sincerely and with true empathy and concern, and most of all, I hope, with love.

This is sad, in more than one way.

Might as well elaborate something that's been on my mind recently... The "meaning of life." Sometimes I see this used as an argument against atheism (not here, just sayin'); without god there is no meaning, they say, and that's just silly, or something like that. Thing is, I don't even understand the question. The meaning of life? Life is not a thing which has "meaning," as far as I can understand. Words and phrases have meaning. Gestures have meaning. In short, things which are expressive to somebody are things that have meaning. Who's life supposed to be an expression for? What does this question mean?

A potentially helpful alternative is if a theist (like Corraiv here), who apparently finds and delights in meaning, would tell me what the meaning of life is according to their worldview. Maybe then I'll better understand the question.