Eclipse Phase: Frosted Glass Discussion

[krogothwolf]

Gem, no commander is ever really going to answer those truthfully, the most you'd get is "We do the jobs assigned to us." Do you really expect a liason/handler/proxy/cpmmander to answer those questions considering the range of stuff we might be required to do and the range of equipment we might need? No bloody likely.

[Geminex]

"Not bloody likely"?
How so?
I mean, sure, Johanna probably won't be answering them.
But are you saying that it's unreasonable for Spectre to ask them?

Because see, if I look at the situation:
We have a variety of individuals who are being employed by an agency that claims its purpose is fighting threats to humanity. They give very little other information
Now, there are those who just go along with this, without demanding any more info other than what they're supposed to do. And there are those who decide that before they go a step further, they're going to demand more information, because why the hell should they trust this organization, they know absolutely nothing about them!

Now ignore the fact that this is an RP, and that we can trust our GM not to screw us over. (Probably... right?).
Just see it from an in-character perspective. Which of the above groups seems more... believable? The one who trusts blindly or the one who asks the questions?


I'm not saying that OMG I WANT ANSWERS NOOOOOW, god no.
I'm saying that
a) The reason Johanna didn't answer these questions (That Spectre had not been paying attention) doesn't seem valid, since they haven't been given answers to any of Spectre's questions yet.
and
b) The way I see it, it's actually good roleplaying for a character to have asked these questions, since it makes no sense for them to blindly trust an organization just because it claims it's working for the good of mankind. The very least our characters should be doing is asking for this kind of information.

And honestly, I think that, in-character it's also reasonable for Spectre to expect an answer here. He's not asking for the darkest secrets of their organization. He's asking for some basic, general information, to decide whether or not he actually wants to be working here, and to prepare himself for operations with this organization. Is that some sort of mistake only amateurs make? Did I miss some section in the manual where it says that everyone is a gullible idiot who'll accept employment in a shady organization, put his life in their hands, without any way to guarantee that they won't screw him over utterly?

I mean, conspiracy and horror, sure, but "no commander will ever give you any information, ever, you are at their mercy, deal with it", that is not, I think, the mindset you're supposed to be playing this with. You have some degree of freedom, some degree of power over yourself.

Edit: Mind you, I'm not saying that answers to these questions will be enough for anyone to reasonably trust Firewall. But it'll be a start, at the very least.

[Overcast]

As a merc I figure Spectre should know by now that no matter what you are doing if you are working for a paramilitary group you will be risking morph and ego to get what they need done. If he wants to maintain any reputation for himself or to the organization he plans to work with he should be loyal. Confidentiality should be considered, particularly for his own safety and to build rep, but even if it isn't there are sure to be people who will maintain it.

Missions and tools are a need-to-know thing. You are barely an employee, and if he has the background you are painting he is difficult to trust. Compare to someone like Daniel who has extensive XP evidence of him following through on any mission he has been assigned. What tasks are they getting? Protect Transhumanity, that is the mission statement. That is all you need to know until you are given your specific briefing. What tools will you get? Depends on what you are doing, so wait for your mission briefing.

Spectre not responding well to this is fine. I figure he is just another denizen on this place and only contributes to what fits his interests, Daniel isn't so different. Daniel is former Navy though, so he might be a bit more used to this kind of treatment, both in figuring what is expected of him and being kept out of the loop and simply be asked to do and hope it is contributing to something greater.

I'm hoping PF is absolutely evil to us though. Why else would I take bad luck?

[Geminex]

Missions and tools are a need-to-know thing. You are barely an employee, and if he has the background you are painting he is difficult to trust.

Well, they've already revealed their existence. They might as well give him a bit of other information.
Because hey, no matter what, he's not going to be in a position to broadcast this information.

Either he accepts their offer of employment, in which case it really wouldn't be in his interest to break firewall confidentiality.
Or he doesn't accept their offer of employment, in which case they're going to have to take measures to ensure that what he knows (existence of firewall), newest members doesn't get out. And if they're going to take said measures anway, they might as well also ensure that the details he's asked for don't get out as well. I'm thinking that, if he doesn't accept, they'll either just kill his morph, destroy his cortical stack, or edit his memories. And if they're going to do that anyway, where's the harm in giving him some more information in the hopes of securing his trust?

And like I said, he's not asking for details.
He's not saying "What is the inventory of your arsenal, PRECISELY?". He'd just like to know, say, that they'll be making backups for him, they can provide effective morphs should his current morph be destroyed in their service, that they can provide credits and weapons.
He's not asking to know what the last mission that Johanna co-ordinated was like. He's just asking what kind of stuff he could be expecting to do.

That's the sort of general information he's asking for. Is that too much to ask, do you think?

[Overcast]

The information he is asking for is likely going to come in the form of the mission brief or were already given. They will be offering backup insurance, they know the kind of morphs we like and are ready to pander to that particular interest, they are giving Rep for your services which means you can use their resources. The question of how deep their resources go should be notable by how much information they can dig up around our characters, but that is a wild assumption so I won't figure Spectre to take that into account.

In the end, no it isn't too much to ask for. But it is ultimately irrelevant.

[Geminex]

Well, are you saying they'll start briefing our characters before they've accepted employment? Because Spectre is still in the "Should I work for these guys?" phase. I mean, sure, they'll get more information during the briefing, but before they can be briefed, they have to become part of firewall. And before Spectre is given more information, he'll be very reluctant to become part of firewall.

So no, I wouldn't consider it that irrelevant.

Edit:
But we've spent too much time discussing this, let's leave it at that, I'll see how PF responds.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Geminex

He's just asking what kind of stuff he could be expecting to do.

Originally Posted by Nyx

"Pay attention, because I'm not going to say this twice. We're Firewall. We are a multi-national, multi-factional conspiratorial paramilitary group self-tasked with the location, determination and neutralization of existential threats to mankind as a whole. I'd ask if anyone here knew what an existential threat was, but if you didnt, you've probably already looked it up. Nukes, Nanoplagues, Worms, TITANs, Factors, ETs and Unknowns are all out there ready to wipe our little pathetic asses right out of the stars."

Spectre's 'what, roughly, are we expected to do?' has been answered.

We are going to be locating threats to the existence of mankind, which include, but are not limited to, Nukes, Nanoplagues, Worms, TITANs, Factors, ETs, and Unknowns.

That's your job.

You find them, you figure out if they're a threat, if they are you neutralize the threat.

Past that everything is, obviously, fluid and dependent on mission briefings.

As these are threats to mankind, the answer on how far you are expected to go is ALSO obvious. As far as it takes.

[Geminex]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Unless Spectre is borderline retarded, his 'what, roughly, are we expected to do?' has been answered.

We are going to be locating threats to the existence of mankind, which include, but are not limited to, Nukes, Nanoplagues, Worms, TITANs, Factors, ETs, and Unknowns.

That's your job.

You find them, you figure out if they're a threat, if they are you neutralize the threat.

Past that everything is, obviously, fluid and dependent on mission briefings.

As these are threats to mankind, the answer on how far you are expected to go is ALSO obvious. As far as it takes.

I had understood that much, actually. But see, you mention mission briefings. I had assumed that these briefings would exist and that, regardless of our self-taskedness, there would be some sort of control that our proxie (and, through her, PF) exerts upon us.

And I don't think that our choice in mission would be entirely situational. "Whatever it takes" is nice, but when there's more than one way to complete a mission, which I'm sure there will be, and it seems like they all could be equally effective, which I'm sure it will seem, there has to be some sort of preference that Firewall has.

But like I said, we've discussed this too much. Let's leave it? I don't think Spectre's questions were stupid, or that he could be expected to know what he asked for, but ok. I'm willing to drop this. Can we?

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Geminex

I had assumed that these briefings exist

They do.

We haven't had one yet.

You seem to be dissatisfied with not knowing everything that will be required of you in every mission before your briefing.

"Whatever it takes" is nice, but when there's more than one way to complete a mission, which I'm sure there will be, and it seems like they all could be equally effective, which I'm sure it will seem, there has to be some sort of preference that Firewall has.

Which will likely change dependent upon the mission--and therefore be contained within our briefings. IF they have a preference.

I'm willing to drop this. Can we?

If you promise to stop being so damned confrontational in the discussion thread toward everyone.

[Geminex]

You seem to be dissatisfied with not knowing everything that will be required of you in every mission before your briefing.

No! Of course not! This isn't about demanding the information. Just about establishing that his decision to ask these questions shouldn't reflect badly upon Spectre, since
a) he hadn't yet been given this information
and
b) it would make sense for a mercenary to ask for such details before beginning employment.

I don't demand this info. I'm just defending my character here.

And at this point I would normally argue that I'm not being confrontational, but that would be counter-productive, wouldn't it?
I will say that my interactions with Drac are usually pure confrontationalism that actually never amounts to anything because neither takes the other seriously.

As for interacting with the rest of our players, I'll try to be more self-aware of how I'm acting. Becasue I don't actually mean to be confontational...

Edit:
Hoping that's behind us (and hoping I didn't offend anyone, honest apologies if I did), question regarding "Stressfull experiences": It says that "Extreme violence: Committing" typically incurs 1d10 SV. Which seems fair. Question is, what is "extreme", in this case? Visceral murder? Massacring several individuals at once? Shooting someone in the head at point-blank range in cold blood?