PS3 just got a nice bounty - Page 4

twinsidedblade52 · 02-16-2007, 10:38 PM

Any time =P

Anyways. Like I said, I understand the various causes to PS3 still being on the shelf. But from a gamer standpoint, they aren't very good reasons. For the occasional gamer and what not maybe, but for someone who honestly loves games and all it's entierty, PS3 is honestly a strong system, same with the PS2.

Xbox and it's current evoloution are more of a high end party console. Halo is more of a party fps for the local gathering, and I have my own reasons of hatred to the Halo title. But is also more of a sports game system. I find that it just fits better for a sports game (even though all systems have similar controls) then the PS2 or Gamecube.

Gamecube and now the Wii is more of a party console for all ages and all intellectual abilities to atleast turn the console on. And that is not an insult. Nintendo is very smart, in recognizing that their prime consumers are parents for their children, people who don't have a lot of time to divulge into a complex and diverse story...or zelda fans. And so far, the new zelda has been the driving cause for sales, and to a lot of the consumers here was a dissapointment. The graphics did not surpass the Gamecube counterpart, and the controls were not AS exciting as it was made to be. But anywho, I think the Nintendo has this down over both Microsoft and Sony in the gaming market, and they should, they've been the primary gaming company for a long time until the debut of the Playstation.

PS3 has the potential to hold it's own, but for now it is destined to be shelfed until the consumers start seeing games that catch their specific attention. Hopefully Quater 4 will do that, but Sony, like Sega before it, has a problem with advertising to the proper consumers (Sega didn't really advertise at all, and thats why they no longer make systems)

ZAKtheGeek · 02-16-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

The CEO of Sony has said, on record, that the price for the current PS3 is cheap. He then went on to say that he could have set it at any price, since no matter what price they put it at, people would still buy it.

With 0 launch titles, right? Or is that a different quote? Well, no matter, I guess the picture is clear...

Quote:

Hopefully Quater 4 will do that, but Sony, like Sega before it, has a problem with advertising to the proper consumers (Sega didn't really advertise at all, and thats why they no longer make systems)

Sega did advertise, just not in an effective way. Cough. Reverse tear-shed.

h4x.m4g3 · 02-17-2007, 12:09 AM

I'm not sure if I'll be getting a PS3, mainly because I don't have a job and don't buy any systems, and partly because my brother owns a 360 and now that RE5 isn't exclusive and that was my "OMG I HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME" means I have less of a reason to save up my Christmas/Birthday/Graduation money on one system rather than a ton of games for one I already own.

Anyway, I think it's about time Sony's ego was pushed down, not because I want to see Sony fail, but because I want Sony to start focusing on making better products instead of going "ZOMG we're Sony we can make whatever we want and you have to buy it cause we're Sony." Note: I'm not saying the PS3 is a bad system, when my friend buys his (if there is a bigger Sony fanboy, I haven't met him. I mean literally he won't admit anything) I'm going to play it a lot.

On a side-note, and this is purely from my own experience, a week before Christmas up to about Mid-February Nintendo DS's basically became extinct. Honestly there wasn't a single one new/used/lite to be found in the Tri-County area, and they were being regularly re-supplied (not some wierd shortage just increase in demand). The only way my friend got his (luckily I got mine before the rush) is because we had a mutual friend who worked at an EB, and even then they only had one left, and it was Pink, and he had to reserve it early in the day.

lymerion · 02-17-2007, 01:47 AM

I think the problem Sega and Dreamcast had wasn't so much that they didn't advertise well, but that the consumer trust that they had bulit up with the Genesis/Megadrive was almost entirely drained at that point by 1. The total success that Sony had with PS1. 2. The failure that was the Saturn and 3. The fact that even though Saturn was a CD-based console like PS1, they got beat by Nintendo even though N64 was an inferior cart-based system, despite Nintendo's (at the time) gushing hurbris. Not to mention that even before Saturn, Sega had started pissing away the trust, with the total failures that Sega CD and 32x were, as well as Game Gear (all three of which I give some credit to for Sega, despite coming to market two years ahead of Nintendo, losing the 16-bit console war in the end). Sega, as good as Dreamcast was, just couldn't stand up to Sony's post-PS1 momentum combined with PS2's post-launch success.

Anyway, to get back on topic:

I too have seen many PS3s sitting on the shelves. There's one at Fred Meyer thats been there at least two weeks, three at Wal-Mart, two at Target, a few at Shopko, and a couple I've seen people trying to offload in the local classifieds. I can also verify the lack of DSes lately. I got mine before Xmas, and I've only seen them appear again just recently, though that was around three weeks ago and I haven't seen any since.

I also agree that PS3 is clearly a very impressive machine technically. Doesn't make it a seller though. Especially when it's priced high (for the consumer) and coming from a company that has hubris pouring from every possible point. Somewhat like Nintendo circa 95-96, only worse. I don't think PS3 or PSP are going to end up worse off than Virtual Boy was, but unless PS3 gets a real killer app that makes anyone besides hardcore gamers want to drop $700-$2k* for what is, currently, little more than an over-complicated eye masturbator, it's going to end up at least the N64 of this gen, if not the Saturn.

*$700=PS3+game+tax. $2k=Decent HDTV+PS3+game+tax. Though, of course, the price there could vary by several hundred bucks, but you get the point.

Tendronai · 02-17-2007, 09:36 AM

The PS3 is technically impressive, I'll give them that. However, I wouldn't buy one as it is simply due to the fact that Sony has been saying ever since the unveiling of the machine "You'll take this and you'll LOVE it." They've been utterly dismissive of anyone who points out flaws, because their reasoning is that they are too stupid to realize the greatness of their system. This entire story is a regurgitation of that fact.

Quite frankly, the fact that so many people have bought one already on Ebay for God knows how much disgusts me. It's in essence giving Sony carte blanche to act like this and admitting that they don't have a free will, because they're going to jump through Sony's hoops. Sure, it looks pretty and all, but is it really worth the price?

On a side note, I think that the Wii is really the only system worth getting, because it's the only one doing something new. Both 360 and PS3 are just the same games but slightly better looking. The fact that everyone seems to say that graphics are the primary selling point, in my opinion, misses the entire point of video games.

Aerozord · 02-17-2007, 11:03 AM

I checked the sales figures. The best selling system was the DS. I am just suprised that at this point the DS is still selling like mad. I figured that by now most peole that want one would have one.

I got a Wii because it had games I wanted Zelda, which could hold me over untill SSBB comes out. Not to mention Wii Sports. I got a 360 because it had games I wanted, as it should after being out for a year. But PS3 had nothing I wanted. And from what I have seen, they have one or two that I care about even slightly. I dont mean currently, I am talking about games not coming out for a year or two. Those few good games aren't worth 600 dollars. Not to mention I bet I will get a the same eye strain as I did with dead rising. I am in college, I cant afford a HD TV

twinsidedblade52 · 02-17-2007, 03:09 PM

Everyone knows that with sony, the good games don't come out till later. But they are coming, and I don't mean by graphics, though a game I feel worth mentioning due to graphics would be Lair. It comes out shortly, at least it is supposed to, due out in spring, and it looks amazing. A current game that is excellent would be motor storm. It is fun, exciting, and when it comes to a racing games, the superior graphics generally get the vote as, you can only do so much with the genre. Blacksite: Area 51 looks amazing too, though console fps to me are a waste of time. Partly why I hate halo. There are several games for the PS3 that will be great, the only iffy title would be Final Fantasy 13, which I am excited for yet dreading at the same time.

Final Fantasy 12 was an excellent game, just a little short, and from what I have read, the story in 13 will be great, however you can only carry on a title so long before it dies. Final Fantasy is not the best RPG out there, but it does offer up enjoyment almost everytime, which is key, and they have some of the better written stories. I think the only story surpassing a FF game, would be Chrono Trigger, and lets just face, that game beats all.

But as a whole, the Wii is only doing so good because they recognize their prime consumers, their biggest sales, and they advertise straight to them. As for the DS' success, it is either that or a PSP, and the PSP is sony's first atempt at a handheld. But honestly, it has the better games between the two, the only thing is the PSP is more adult orientated. I have a DS, I want the PSP. I have the games that are good on DS, but however they aren't all that fun.

But back to the PS3, this thread has proven my point. Everyone is put off by what the spoksmen say about it. But they didn't build it, and they don't make the games for it. You can never go by reviews, and you can never go by what the CEOs all say from any company anywhere. That is always going to be a clouded view by personal order, to understand it, you need to go in with a clean mind of it, and try it. You need to read up on what is to come without taking to mind whatever opinions you may come to find. And in general you need to deside what kind of consumer you are.

The PS3 is not for everyone. Certainly not if you have no job. The Wii is the easiest on the poket book, and it's easiest to just pick up and play, and it has some great titles. The 360 has some decent titles on it as well, and so does the PS3.

People look at the high price ticket and thing Sony is full of crap, but that is just simple ignorance. I mean, lets take a look at the blue ray dvd players. All you get to do, is watch a movie, no interaction, no control over the lives of the characters, you just watch. And what is it you pay for the player? Generally that will run you over $1000 just to watch something. The PS3 costs $599 and this is what you get. A blue ray dvd player, pluse a machine that plays games off the same disc. Wireless online to go with it, a hard drive. The box comes with one controller. And depending on the store you get a free game with it as a bundle.

Not to mention it is by the largest company in electronics to be building it. It is high end, and it can deliver, just don;t buy in to the actual hype. Thats how Halo 2 failed. Everyone got into the hype, and within two weeks of release, stores were flooded with used copies. Hype is a game and system killer, as well as a movie killer. All I can say is, don't be off put by Sony's CEO's ignorance of his own system, he is a moron. The same can be said for microsoft. Nintendo is the only company to not bash the others, and that reason, is they understand it makes no difference.

PS3 is on the shelves right now, but give it a while, and you won't be able to find it. And what is really funny, is it will be the people who started bashing it that buy it out.

lymerion · 02-17-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinsidedblade52

Nintendo is the only company to not bash the others, and that reason, is they understand it makes no difference.

They used to, a lot. I have a video around here somewhere that I got from Ninty in 97 as part of my Nintendo Power subscription. It's essentially a 20-some minute ad for the Rumble Pak and features three guys: Nintendo guy (the "cool" guy), and Sony and Sega guys (the not "cool" guys). Most of the dialog consists of: Nintendo: "I'm so good!" Sony and Sega: "Aw, man. I wish I was as good as you, Nintendo."

Why don't they do this anymore? Cause all that hurbris and bullshit went and bit them in the ass. They don't bash the others because they know that the only thing it does is reaffirm the fanboys and put-off everybody else. Bashing the others only serves to hurt the basher. Which is why...

Quote:

PS3 is on the shelves right now, but give it a while, and you won't be able to find it. And what is really funny, is it will be the people who started bashing it that buy it out.

... this won't happen. Not a chance. "It's not next-gen 'til we say it is" is tantamount to saying exactly the same things Nintendo said some 10 years ago. Doesn't matter how good PS3 is. Also, the price point combined with the hubris just puts off the consumers more. Think about this: Sony releases a console with a price point aboutt $100 above the competition. People react negatively. Then, as if Sony actually wants to kill their consumer base, they respond "Well, we don't think it's too much. It's actually too little. We're doing you a favor by pricing it several hundred dollars below production costs, so why don't you just go thank us by buying one!"

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Sony's going to be lucky to turn a profit on PS3 over its entire life span.

Aerozord · 02-17-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinsidedblade52

People look at the high price ticket and thing Sony is full of crap, but that is just simple ignorance. I mean, lets take a look at the blue ray dvd players. All you get to do, is watch a movie, no interaction, no control over the lives of the characters, you just watch. And what is it you pay for the player? Generally that will run you over $1000 just to watch something. The PS3 costs $599 and this is what you get. A blue ray dvd player, pluse a machine that plays games off the same disc. Wireless online to go with it, a hard drive. The box comes with one controller. And depending on the store you get a free game with it as a bundle.

so by your logic, "you should buy a PS3 because its a cheap blu-ray player". Ok... but I dont want a blu-ray player. As I said blu-ray isn't good for games. Yea its got more disc space, but a slower disc speed. That equals more load times. Which is what turned me off of CD games to begin with. Also because its so different from the PS2 the developers need entirely new game engines. By the way, that cranks up production costs and time. Take a wild guess who pays the price? Give you a hint, its not sony

Adding needless hardware to a system doesn't make it better, it makes it more expensive. Do I want ANOTHER DVD player, no. Do I want another webbrowser, no. Do I want another toaster, no. Do I want something to play games, yes

twinsidedblade52 · 02-17-2007, 10:02 PM

Once again, I don't disagree that it is very off putting what sony has said and done. But at the same time, in corprate America, after a while it doesn't matter, and the product will eventually turn profit. Not to mention the PS3 general fanbase and major buyers is over seas in another country.

The fact that they dont think it is to much, is because in other locations people are buying it. And it's not that those other locations are stupid, it's that they recognize what a decent product is...and I'm sure their reps aren't blatant assholes.. but thats beside the point.

My standpoint is not from consumer relations, but from the gaming standpoint. It doesn't matter how expensive or how jackassy someone is, in the world of gaming all you need is the games, and believe me they will come. Why do you think Sony takes this idea with only the Playstation line and no others? Yes they are all seperate divisions, but as a whole, the wheels turn and they know they can generally get away with it. It can spell failure early on but by the end of the life time, the only thing that could kill PS3 is another blueray gaming device, or something even better, that sells for the price of a Wii, and that will not happen.

I mean come on. Microsoft has the same "I'm a total renob jack ass" attitude, but they sell their system, it is because of the games. Everyone HATES microsoft for a number of reasons, I mean hell, they are in a lawsuit almost every week. But they have the games to sell their machine, and they have one other plus side. Their product is by an American company, so in the states you see a higher turn out for the xbox, but world wide, it bombs compared to Nintendo and Sony.

But to say that due to Sony's actions no one will buy and they will be lucky to make profit. Thats not true. They will. They still have some good exclusives to come, even if they lost the ones that most know about. But come on, you think they wouldn't pay to have some secrets up their sleeve to keep us guessing.

When it comes to general selling, geniuses they ain't, but they are pretty good at pulling secrets out of their ass like a magician does a rabbit out of his hat. Look at God of War. Or even FF12. They definently end up with the proper games to give them the bite to match their bark every time, and this won't be any different.

02-17-2007, 11:03 AM	#36
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	I checked the sales figures. The best selling system was the DS. I am just suprised that at this point the DS is still selling like mad. I figured that by now most peole that want one would have one. I got a Wii because it had games I wanted Zelda, which could hold me over untill SSBB comes out. Not to mention Wii Sports. I got a 360 because it had games I wanted, as it should after being out for a year. But PS3 had nothing I wanted. And from what I have seen, they have one or two that I care about even slightly. I dont mean currently, I am talking about games not coming out for a year or two. Those few good games aren't worth 600 dollars. Not to mention I bet I will get a the same eye strain as I did with dead rising. I am in college, I cant afford a HD TV __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done." Last edited by Aerozord; 02-17-2007 at 11:09 AM.

02-16-2007, 10:38 PM	#31
twinsidedblade52 Goomba Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: here Posts: 14	Any time =P Anyways. Like I said, I understand the various causes to PS3 still being on the shelf. But from a gamer standpoint, they aren't very good reasons. For the occasional gamer and what not maybe, but for someone who honestly loves games and all it's entierty, PS3 is honestly a strong system, same with the PS2. Xbox and it's current evoloution are more of a high end party console. Halo is more of a party fps for the local gathering, and I have my own reasons of hatred to the Halo title. But is also more of a sports game system. I find that it just fits better for a sports game (even though all systems have similar controls) then the PS2 or Gamecube. Gamecube and now the Wii is more of a party console for all ages and all intellectual abilities to atleast turn the console on. And that is not an insult. Nintendo is very smart, in recognizing that their prime consumers are parents for their children, people who don't have a lot of time to divulge into a complex and diverse story...or zelda fans. And so far, the new zelda has been the driving cause for sales, and to a lot of the consumers here was a dissapointment. The graphics did not surpass the Gamecube counterpart, and the controls were not AS exciting as it was made to be. But anywho, I think the Nintendo has this down over both Microsoft and Sony in the gaming market, and they should, they've been the primary gaming company for a long time until the debut of the Playstation. PS3 has the potential to hold it's own, but for now it is destined to be shelfed until the consumers start seeing games that catch their specific attention. Hopefully Quater 4 will do that, but Sony, like Sega before it, has a problem with advertising to the proper consumers (Sega didn't really advertise at all, and thats why they no longer make systems)

02-17-2007, 12:09 AM	#33
h4x.m4g3 Lakitu Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,152	I'm not sure if I'll be getting a PS3, mainly because I don't have a job and don't buy any systems, and partly because my brother owns a 360 and now that RE5 isn't exclusive and that was my "OMG I HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME" means I have less of a reason to save up my Christmas/Birthday/Graduation money on one system rather than a ton of games for one I already own. Anyway, I think it's about time Sony's ego was pushed down, not because I want to see Sony fail, but because I want Sony to start focusing on making better products instead of going "ZOMG we're Sony we can make whatever we want and you have to buy it cause we're Sony." Note: I'm not saying the PS3 is a bad system, when my friend buys his (if there is a bigger Sony fanboy, I haven't met him. I mean literally he won't admit anything) I'm going to play it a lot. On a side-note, and this is purely from my own experience, a week before Christmas up to about Mid-February Nintendo DS's basically became extinct. Honestly there wasn't a single one new/used/lite to be found in the Tri-County area, and they were being regularly re-supplied (not some wierd shortage just increase in demand). The only way my friend got his (luckily I got mine before the rush) is because we had a mutual friend who worked at an EB, and even then they only had one left, and it was Pink, and he had to reserve it early in the day.

02-17-2007, 01:47 AM	#34
lymerion I got nothin'. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 432	I think the problem Sega and Dreamcast had wasn't so much that they didn't advertise well, but that the consumer trust that they had bulit up with the Genesis/Megadrive was almost entirely drained at that point by 1. The total success that Sony had with PS1. 2. The failure that was the Saturn and 3. The fact that even though Saturn was a CD-based console like PS1, they got beat by Nintendo even though N64 was an inferior cart-based system, despite Nintendo's (at the time) gushing hurbris. Not to mention that even before Saturn, Sega had started pissing away the trust, with the total failures that Sega CD and 32x were, as well as Game Gear (all three of which I give some credit to for Sega, despite coming to market two years ahead of Nintendo, losing the 16-bit console war in the end). Sega, as good as Dreamcast was, just couldn't stand up to Sony's post-PS1 momentum combined with PS2's post-launch success. Anyway, to get back on topic: I too have seen many PS3s sitting on the shelves. There's one at Fred Meyer thats been there at least two weeks, three at Wal-Mart, two at Target, a few at Shopko, and a couple I've seen people trying to offload in the local classifieds. I can also verify the lack of DSes lately. I got mine before Xmas, and I've only seen them appear again just recently, though that was around three weeks ago and I haven't seen any since. I also agree that PS3 is clearly a very impressive machine technically. Doesn't make it a seller though. Especially when it's priced high (for the consumer) and coming from a company that has hubris pouring from every possible point. Somewhat like Nintendo circa 95-96, only worse. I don't think PS3 or PSP are going to end up worse off than Virtual Boy was, but unless PS3 gets a real killer app that makes anyone besides hardcore gamers want to drop $700-$2k* for what is, currently, little more than an over-complicated eye masturbator, it's going to end up at least the N64 of this gen, if not the Saturn. *$700=PS3+game+tax. $2k=Decent HDTV+PS3+game+tax. Though, of course, the price there could vary by several hundred bucks, but you get the point.

02-17-2007, 09:36 AM	#35
Tendronai I will crush your economy. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Magical mystical land of Canada. Posts: 1,364	The PS3 is technically impressive, I'll give them that. However, I wouldn't buy one as it is simply due to the fact that Sony has been saying ever since the unveiling of the machine "You'll take this and you'll LOVE it." They've been utterly dismissive of anyone who points out flaws, because their reasoning is that they are too stupid to realize the greatness of their system. This entire story is a regurgitation of that fact. Quite frankly, the fact that so many people have bought one already on Ebay for God knows how much disgusts me. It's in essence giving Sony carte blanche to act like this and admitting that they don't have a free will, because they're going to jump through Sony's hoops. Sure, it looks pretty and all, but is it really worth the price? On a side note, I think that the Wii is really the only system worth getting, because it's the only one doing something new. Both 360 and PS3 are just the same games but slightly better looking. The fact that everyone seems to say that graphics are the primary selling point, in my opinion, misses the entire point of video games.

02-17-2007, 03:09 PM	#37
twinsidedblade52 Goomba Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: here Posts: 14	Everyone knows that with sony, the good games don't come out till later. But they are coming, and I don't mean by graphics, though a game I feel worth mentioning due to graphics would be Lair. It comes out shortly, at least it is supposed to, due out in spring, and it looks amazing. A current game that is excellent would be motor storm. It is fun, exciting, and when it comes to a racing games, the superior graphics generally get the vote as, you can only do so much with the genre. Blacksite: Area 51 looks amazing too, though console fps to me are a waste of time. Partly why I hate halo. There are several games for the PS3 that will be great, the only iffy title would be Final Fantasy 13, which I am excited for yet dreading at the same time. Final Fantasy 12 was an excellent game, just a little short, and from what I have read, the story in 13 will be great, however you can only carry on a title so long before it dies. Final Fantasy is not the best RPG out there, but it does offer up enjoyment almost everytime, which is key, and they have some of the better written stories. I think the only story surpassing a FF game, would be Chrono Trigger, and lets just face, that game beats all. But as a whole, the Wii is only doing so good because they recognize their prime consumers, their biggest sales, and they advertise straight to them. As for the DS' success, it is either that or a PSP, and the PSP is sony's first atempt at a handheld. But honestly, it has the better games between the two, the only thing is the PSP is more adult orientated. I have a DS, I want the PSP. I have the games that are good on DS, but however they aren't all that fun. But back to the PS3, this thread has proven my point. Everyone is put off by what the spoksmen say about it. But they didn't build it, and they don't make the games for it. You can never go by reviews, and you can never go by what the CEOs all say from any company anywhere. That is always going to be a clouded view by personal order, to understand it, you need to go in with a clean mind of it, and try it. You need to read up on what is to come without taking to mind whatever opinions you may come to find. And in general you need to deside what kind of consumer you are. The PS3 is not for everyone. Certainly not if you have no job. The Wii is the easiest on the poket book, and it's easiest to just pick up and play, and it has some great titles. The 360 has some decent titles on it as well, and so does the PS3. People look at the high price ticket and thing Sony is full of crap, but that is just simple ignorance. I mean, lets take a look at the blue ray dvd players. All you get to do, is watch a movie, no interaction, no control over the lives of the characters, you just watch. And what is it you pay for the player? Generally that will run you over $1000 just to watch something. The PS3 costs $599 and this is what you get. A blue ray dvd player, pluse a machine that plays games off the same disc. Wireless online to go with it, a hard drive. The box comes with one controller. And depending on the store you get a free game with it as a bundle. Not to mention it is by the largest company in electronics to be building it. It is high end, and it can deliver, just don;t buy in to the actual hype. Thats how Halo 2 failed. Everyone got into the hype, and within two weeks of release, stores were flooded with used copies. Hype is a game and system killer, as well as a movie killer. All I can say is, don't be off put by Sony's CEO's ignorance of his own system, he is a moron. The same can be said for microsoft. Nintendo is the only company to not bash the others, and that reason, is they understand it makes no difference. PS3 is on the shelves right now, but give it a while, and you won't be able to find it. And what is really funny, is it will be the people who started bashing it that buy it out.

02-17-2007, 10:02 PM	#40
twinsidedblade52 Goomba Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: here Posts: 14	Once again, I don't disagree that it is very off putting what sony has said and done. But at the same time, in corprate America, after a while it doesn't matter, and the product will eventually turn profit. Not to mention the PS3 general fanbase and major buyers is over seas in another country. The fact that they dont think it is to much, is because in other locations people are buying it. And it's not that those other locations are stupid, it's that they recognize what a decent product is...and I'm sure their reps aren't blatant assholes.. but thats beside the point. My standpoint is not from consumer relations, but from the gaming standpoint. It doesn't matter how expensive or how jackassy someone is, in the world of gaming all you need is the games, and believe me they will come. Why do you think Sony takes this idea with only the Playstation line and no others? Yes they are all seperate divisions, but as a whole, the wheels turn and they know they can generally get away with it. It can spell failure early on but by the end of the life time, the only thing that could kill PS3 is another blueray gaming device, or something even better, that sells for the price of a Wii, and that will not happen. I mean come on. Microsoft has the same "I'm a total renob jack ass" attitude, but they sell their system, it is because of the games. Everyone HATES microsoft for a number of reasons, I mean hell, they are in a lawsuit almost every week. But they have the games to sell their machine, and they have one other plus side. Their product is by an American company, so in the states you see a higher turn out for the xbox, but world wide, it bombs compared to Nintendo and Sony. But to say that due to Sony's actions no one will buy and they will be lucky to make profit. Thats not true. They will. They still have some good exclusives to come, even if they lost the ones that most know about. But come on, you think they wouldn't pay to have some secrets up their sleeve to keep us guessing. When it comes to general selling, geniuses they ain't, but they are pretty good at pulling secrets out of their ass like a magician does a rabbit out of his hat. Look at God of War. Or even FF12. They definently end up with the proper games to give them the bite to match their bark every time, and this won't be any different.