Boy forced into raping own mother

[42PETUNIAS]

Originally Posted by Flarecobra

Ok, I may cause you to think of me as weird(er) but what got me wasn't the forced incest nor the rape. It was the ages of the kids who comitted this. How the hell did a 14-year-old think this up? I'd like to hear the motives behind this.

From how much kids are getting exposed to at these ages today, it isn't too surprising that this could be thought up. Hell, Bookie is around that age, and he must have thought up more fucked up stuff than this.
What really scares me is that young kids would actually go out and do something this terrible. That's just scary.

[Sesshoumaru]

Rape is one of the hardest crimes to convict for and has the highest rates of recidivism.

Incidently, due to the infinite wisdom of people like Kinsey, its also the least severely punished violent crime (and by violent crime I mean crimes in which serious mental or physical injury, if you go by the legal definition, then I guess most causes of assault would count as violent crime too). You can't really go a day without hearing a story of a recently paroled rapist commiting another violent attack. Which leads to my question. How many of these little churubs had previous records of violent crimes such as assult or robbery?

[zanthir]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

I'm sorry, where did you get any of this? Revenge? it said nothing of revenge, that's an assumption. Assumptions don't belong here for a discussion, especially not when the assumption attempts to somehow justify violent rape and torture. If there was ANYTHING about 'revenge' in that entire article, I could almost see you making that giant idea-leap -- but there isn't. It's just a giant idea leap from nothing into something kind of crazy.

I'm not justifying what they did, I'm trying to show a possible line of their motives, and what I think may have been going through their heads when they did something this bad.

To me rape is just as bad as torturing animals, and I knew kids that tortured animals when growing up and I thought it was horrible. Ever since then when reading scientific publications that contained the psychological analysis of individuals that did horrible actions that I cant see as justifiable I have paid closer attention and dug up some of these materials to propose what the group of teenagers were thinking.

I haven't encountered any studies of group rape and am having problems finding information that covers them, but its apparent that this was the act of the group, not just one of its members.

While you will probably find that the idea of revenge isn't a possible motive at all for a crime like this you will also find that when groups do things the motive isn't as simple as one of the folks falling into the rapist stereotypes:
The power-assertive rapist, The power-reassurance rapist, Anger-retaliatory rapist, The anger-excitation rapist

In this case I believe that there are 2 likely motives, one being a revenge orientation retaliation lashing out upon a type of individual that they had problems with, or that they were just proving that their group had power, and satisfying some basic desires along the way.

I will attempt to justify that this wasn't just something they did to assert power with the use of this excerpt from: Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender. A. Nicholas Groth. Plenum press, New York. 1981.:

"In a power rape, power appears to be the dominant factor motivating the offender. In these assaults, it is not the offender's desire to harm his victim but to possess her sexually. Sexuality becomes a means of compensating for underlying feelings of inadequacy and serves to express issues of mastery, strength, control, authority, identity, and capability. His goal is sexual conquest, and he uses only the amount of force necessary to accomplish this objective. His aim is to capture and control his victim."

When groups escalate in their actions to something like this and power is to be proven as a group they might more often do something to assert this power that will be seen by other groups that they wish to impress. If they don't then this isn't something done for show, its an inside cruel joke. Now what seems apparent to me is the last line of this excerpt "His aim is to capture and control his victim". This is what the group did in this hideous crime.

Now this is where revenge comes in. What better motive for capturing 2 victims in their own home and force them to do such acts other than to release some pent up anger that had built up from actions of the victims, or actions of others who to them seemed in league with the victims.

I am not assuming anything, but you have to admit the likelihood of revenge being a motive here, and for a large number of possible reasons.

If they truly thought of these people as less human than them then it should be obvious to both parties that the gang has the power and is in control of the situation. This lashing out may have easily been a reaction to the victims threatening the group on a previous time.

This is what it seems like to me after reading this except from the aforementioned book on anger rape:

"The rape experience for this type of offender is one of conscious anger and rage, and he expresses his fury both physically and verbally. His aim is to hurt and debase his victim, and he expresses his contempt for her through abusive and profane language. If his primary motive is one of anger, and if he is not sexually motivated, why doesn't this offender confine his assault to a battering of the victim? Why does he also rape her? The answer seems to be that such a man considers rape the ultimate offense he can commit against another person. Sex becomes his weapon, and rape constitutes the ultimate expression of his anger. The survivor is faceless to the anger rapist. His victim is an object for his rage."

Right now we have no clue what may have aggravated this assault, but if it was indeed a weapon for a group of teenagers to express their utmost anger towards 2 individuals then they not only were diffusing anger towards their daily lives or society placed limitations, there was probably something more. This would easily be more justifiable by every member of the group if it was something that deeply inflicted pain upon every member.

You can relate this to the Abu Aghrib prison incident where the prisoners were treated like worthless animals much as the victims in this act. Now the guards lacked a sense of identity which allowed them to progressively do worse things due to a sense of invincibility that came with this lack of identity.

Now what if a worthless animal that has no benefit for your society did something that threatened the survival and life liberties of yourself or a friend, family member, or colleague? You get some pretty messed up acts, and I liken these acts to what was done in this crime.

I'd like to say that there weren't any assumptions here, I know nothing of the environment these children grew up in, but it isn't far fetched to say that the 2 victims or someone that belonged in the same group of the victims (whether it be a religious group, social group, chess club group, loyal Gator's fan, whatever) that they would have wanted to teach them a lesson.

[42PETUNIAS]

Originally Posted by Zanthir

To me rape is just as bad as torturing animals

I don't know if you meant to put it this way, but at my end, that is one of the most sexist statements I've read.

[zanthir]

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

I don't know if you meant to put it this way, but at my end, that is one of the most sexist statements I've read.

I considered revising that and typed 5 different ways of saying it, but only that way held true to my beliefs.

I think that torturing an animal is just as wrong as torturing a human. I also look at rape as a type of human torture and a hideous crime. Now I don't necessarily believe that these 2 completely different crimes deserve different punishments, because I think its possible to rehabilitate someone who tortures animals and that this type of thing doesn't degrade society as much, but on my moral scale these things are of the same unspeakable act that should never take place.

It isn't sexist at all. Let me further this statement by saying that these crimes to me are on the same scale as sodomy, which happens to both sexes just as frequently.

Originally Posted by mattblack04

Not likely. Criminal behavior much, much more often then not escalates rather than decreases. Calling a prison a rehabilitation center is laughable as the big crimes, such as identity theft, burglary, rape, murder, is not something people do once and never again. The people who don't ever do it again are usually the ones who did it for a special reason, such as breaking into a home to steal what that person stole in the first place, or if you killed someone in self defense but the jury didn't buy it, etc.

If these kids are not neutered now, they will spawn children who will probably do this too. At least I believe so.

I found this page citing studies done on rapists http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract

I completely agree with you, prison really doesn't break people. But every once in a while it rehabilitates (or so they say) and nothing will stop me from hoping that a rapist might continue to finish his life as a normal citizen, contributing to society instead of degrading it further after finishing out a sentence.


(Edit: I combined posts, thanks for the suggestion 42PETUNIAS)

[42PETUNIAS]

That makes more sense, but you could definitly debate that rape can be more physcologically damaging than torture. It definitly would have been a good idea to explain that reasoning if you're going to make a statement like that.

Also, watch the double post, we have edit buttons here, so there is no reason to make two posts in a row.

[Sesshoumaru]

To alot of people, rape is viewed as a form of torture.

[42PETUNIAS]

Originally Posted by Sesshoumaru

To alot of people, rape is viewed as a form of torture.

I didn't mean that it wasn't torture, I just meant conventional torutre when I said "torture." Rape definitly qualifies as torture in my book.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

So yeah, ZANTHIR, a man who is much, much drunker than I am wants you to "stop using logical fallacies" and "site your sources". I am just passing this along.

Also--and this one is from me--stop trying to say that such and such justifies what the kids did because it doesn't.

[Fifthfiend]

I don't think Zanthir is trying to excuse anything they did, just lay out the reasons behind them doing it. Saying that a monster has reasons for being a monster doesn't mean saying he isn't a monster.

Also, didn't Zanthir already cite his sources?

You may want to give the drunk-posting in Discussion a rest, just as a bit of advice. It doesn't seem like anything good is gonna come from that.

At that, we even have that "think before you post" standard written into the rules somewhere, which drunk-posting would pretty much by definition seem to preclude.