How can Squeenix fix itself? - Page 4

greed · 12-01-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDrgon

Such a shame

Anyway, am I the only person who prefers random battles? and a plain turn based battle system? My main turn off about twelve was that I felt I was never in control during a battle. I felt like I was playing a bad MMO.

Nope, I have no preferences between random battles and enemies wandering around, and my favourite battle systems are turn based ones like FFX or SMT's. Though personally I loved 12.

Personally I'm mostly happy with SE, the Enix side as noted is pretty strong and the Square side's main faults are the FF7 compendium (I didn't really care for FF7, so well you can see the problem) and retcons. A few years back I would say lack of interesting side stuff but hey The World Ends with You and that Collossus game, so I'm fine there now. I like the rereleases cause PAL got shitted on first time round so having access to legitimate copies of these games is nice.

Though really a lot of these problems I don't get anyway. Basically I'm one of those people Twiddy mentioned, I like a story grafted round the action of the game. Well that and I've never really cared about the story, setting or characters in Western RPGs, and hence I don't enjoy them anywhere near as much. It doesn't help that the battle system in Western RPGs usually(ie every one I've played) sucks.

Jagos · 12-01-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDrgon

Such a shame

Anyway, am I the only person who prefers random battles? and a plain turn based battle system? My main turn off about twelve was that I felt I was never in control during a battle. I felt like I was playing a bad MMO.

Honestly, random battles are a bone with me. I have no control over it and I HAVE to finish the damn thing to continue on with the story. So the more that I can get AWAY from that, the better off my blood pressure will be. If it has something to do with the story, great, put it in there. But if I have a right to CHOOSE if I want to fight the enemy or if I just want to stun him and move on then dangit, GIVE-ME-THAT-OPTION! :stressed:

*huff, huff, huff*

Okay, I'm good.

Turn based I'm okay with. It's similar to chess where you have certain pieces that succeed from doing X to Y and Z counters X so I like having to figure out strategies to get to the right place, hit the enemy and minimize damage to my troops.

Kaneda · 12-01-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Had'ohken

"But the problem is, nine times out of ten, those story-driven game directors get it completely, utterly wrong. The fact is, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy are not good storytelling videogames. In fact, they're pretty poor.

If people quit with the "OH SHIT I CAN'T DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE PLOT SO THIS GAME SUCKS" and actually looked at things from alternate perspectives you would see that there's more than one way to tell a story.

Going by the examples of "poor storytelling" given, Metal Gear Solid 2's story took advantage of the medium being used, just not in the way so many people seem to demand. Tricking the player into thinking they get to pretend to be the guy everyone wanted to be, then making you play as the guy you somewhat pathetically are most likely similar to. Raiden and his "VR training." The plot twist revealed by Ocelot that the whole game was essentially a simulation of the previous game. Ultimately the game even confirms and states that Raiden, and thus the player, have no real control over the story, and forces you into fighting Solidus for the Patriots. The execution is far from perfect, and I wouldn't consider the dialogue that great either, but I can't criticize it for not taking advantage of the medium in its storytelling, when essentially the whole thing is commentary on the medium.

Final Fantasy X was a very linear game. Yet I did not feel like I was being yanked around by the plot, as is the case with some story driven JRPGs. Rather than "Cutscene! Now go that way. Cutscene! Now go that way" FFX just went "you have to go this way on your quest, and summon the final aeon" and the story flowed naturally from there. Rather than the plot pulling the player about, FFX managed to have the two go side by side fairly effectively.

People just came up with this "RIGHT WAY TO TELL STORIES IN VIDEO GAMES" and now demand it. The medium's stories don't have to be comprised entirely of choose your own adventure novels. Obviously the quality of writing and cutscene direction can use major improvement, but the "cutscenes and linear storylines are bad" mentality many gamers have is just narrow minded.

Had'ohken · 12-01-2008, 11:20 PM

"Innovation" means different things to different people, but IMO, mucking around with the battle system and adding new gimmicks is one thing that's HAMPERED each game in some way.

FF7: Materia
FF8: Drawing...OH GOD, THE DRAWING
FF10: Sphere Grid
FF12: MMORPG-lite, computer-controlled party members (only if you let it, but still)

At least the earlier FFs were consistent with the battle system, now it's like they think they need a new gimmick to make it feel "fresh" in each game.

Had'ohken · 12-01-2008, 11:23 PM

Kaneda, and others who have posted on the subject: I'm not saying I don't like a set story. I'm sorry if that's the impression others got. I'm saying that the story Squeenix often DELIVERS is childish, badly-written, and something that would get made fun of if a 10-year-old wrote it. I realize most games have set stories by default and I'm fine with that; but Squeenix's writing is TERRIBLE.

Examples of their bad writing include the poorly-plotted Xenogears. Seriously, a lot of people apparently think it was genius, but I think it was a jumbled-up mess of shit.

The Wizard Who Did It · 12-01-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Had'ohken

Kaneda, and others who have posted on the subject: I'm not saying I don't like a set story. I'm sorry if that's the impression others got. I'm saying that the story Squeenix often DELIVERS is childish, badly-written, and something that would get made fun of if a 10-year-old wrote it. I realize most games have set stories by default and I'm fine with that; but Squeenix's writing is TERRIBLE.

Oh man you should see children's stories. Just go to fanfic.com

@Blues: Again, most of the anger comes from poorly designed spinoffs that ruin the main series.

Also, I'm sorry, I'm fine with most FF games, but you can't really save Final Fantasy VIII if you tried.

Quote:

Examples of their bad writing include the poorly-plotted Xenogears. Seriously, a lot of people apparently think it was genius, but I think it was a jumbled-up mess of shit.

One of the problems with Xenogears is that it doesn't make much sense unless you're well educated in various religions, languages, philosophies, and alchemy. Or you use google like it's your bitch the entire time playing.

Had'ohken · 12-01-2008, 11:37 PM

It doesn't help that XG liberally ripped off a certain anime series that my avatar is taken from.

Jagos · 12-01-2008, 11:45 PM

Let's not forget that there's a book that is literally a tome of info that went unused because Square hurried their teams to produce another helping of FF.

-Also- We generally frown upon double posts... I'd say edit them together then delete one for consistency.

Regulus Tera · 12-01-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Had'ohken

It doesn't help that XG liberally ripped off a certain anime series that my avatar is taken from.

That explains the poor plot structuring alright.

Had'ohken · 12-01-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

That explains the poor plot structuring alright.

Hey, hey, I'm not here to start fights. Cool down.

12-01-2008, 11:45 PM	#38
Jagos FRONT KICK OF DOOM! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Howdy pardner... Posts: 6,399	Let's not forget that there's a book that is literally a tome of info that went unused because Square hurried their teams to produce another helping of FF. -Also- We generally frown upon double posts... I'd say edit them together then delete one for consistency. __________________ Copyright musings World ramblings Scifi stories

12-01-2008, 11:20 PM	#34
Had'ohken Goomba Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	"Innovation" means different things to different people, but IMO, mucking around with the battle system and adding new gimmicks is one thing that's HAMPERED each game in some way. FF7: Materia FF8: Drawing...OH GOD, THE DRAWING FF10: Sphere Grid FF12: MMORPG-lite, computer-controlled party members (only if you let it, but still) At least the earlier FFs were consistent with the battle system, now it's like they think they need a new gimmick to make it feel "fresh" in each game.

12-01-2008, 11:23 PM	#35
Had'ohken Goomba Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	Kaneda, and others who have posted on the subject: I'm not saying I don't like a set story. I'm sorry if that's the impression others got. I'm saying that the story Squeenix often DELIVERS is childish, badly-written, and something that would get made fun of if a 10-year-old wrote it. I realize most games have set stories by default and I'm fine with that; but Squeenix's writing is TERRIBLE. Examples of their bad writing include the poorly-plotted Xenogears. Seriously, a lot of people apparently think it was genius, but I think it was a jumbled-up mess of shit.

12-01-2008, 11:37 PM	#37
Had'ohken Goomba Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17	It doesn't help that XG liberally ripped off a certain anime series that my avatar is taken from.