Mainstream marijunna and minorities.

[Kim]

Funny how your counter brings us back to a point I've already established I agree with and not the thing we were talking about. :J

See previous post's title.

To wit, yeah, things are getting pretty heavy, which is WHY people can't grow their own pot at the moment. You need special facilities to get away with it at this point. We're talking underground bunkers packed full of the things are providing the goods now, like factory farms do for cattle. With the need for that removed, yeah, I see a lot of people skipping the cost if they're going to use and growing it on their own if they can get away with it.

You never did provide a reason for why this doesn't happen with tobacco, so I hardly see how this is the foregone conclusion you keep treating it as.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by NonCon

You never did provide a reason for why this doesn't happen with tobacco, so I hardly see how this is the foregone conclusion you keep treating it as.

Well, I could say that some people do grow their own tobacco, but the people I know who do are Native Americans and don't really provide an accurate subset given they use it for their ceremonies. So I'll just have to take a guess and say that it goes back to the days of Southern plantations when they all just did that stuff due to having the right climate and soil for it and people have been depending on big farms for it for quite some time. With pot, it hasn't been that long since people COULD grow their own, and many still take the risk, so there's already a do-it-yourself culture to it. People who grow the stuff aren't going to up and stop just because someone else starts. It's often a large chunk of their income, and I doubt they'll be giving that up, especially if they can snatch up more market share and offer competitive prices. Aside from that, they have full control over what goes into it and a loyal buyer market already, so not only will people often stick with a source they can trust, but they can also raise flags on the superior safety and purity of the product.

[Kim]

And fast food? I'm not saying people won't grow their own, but there are a ridiculous amount of cases in modern society where people with the ability to make/grow/prepare their own food, vegetables, tobacco and what have you, and there are a large number of benefits to doing so, but they still don't, and businesses are able to capitalize off this. And your argument basically boils down to "Well what if they don't capitalize off of it?" Every reason you've given for why people will still grown their own, to the point where it might not be profitable for big business, has a perfectly valid counter-example.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by NonCon

And fast food? I'm not saying people won't grow their own, but there are a ridiculous amount of cases in modern society where people with the ability to make/grow/prepare their own food, vegetables, tobacco and what have you, and there are a large number of benefits to doing so, but they still don't, and businesses are able to capitalize off this. And your argument basically boils down to "Well what if they don't capitalize off of it?" Every reason you've given for why people will still grown their own, to the point where it might not be profitable for big business, has a perfectly valid counter-example.

One could argue that a counter-example is really just another option and not a replacement, NonCon. What I'm saying is there's already a culture of independence here. It's not just going to change overnight. The growers will continue to grow to get their livelihood and the buyers will go wherever they feel is best, which will end up depending on factors of safety, quality, and price. If they have a provider that already gives them un-cut goods of good quality for an affordable rate, they probably aren't all going to jump to give their money to a big, faceless corporation.

[Mirai Gen]

Blues the only reason marijuana growing is an acceptable profession is because it's illegal - nobody after abolition was repealed made their own alcohol, and this isn't any different. You'll have a handful based on the exclusive market who prefer the 'all natural' but nobody does their own anything. All the examples you bring up are just, as Noncon said, "Well, what if they don't?"

Convenience and ease is, and has always been, the deciding factor. Its the same reason fast food chains are so profitable - the people who like to prepare (let alone grow and prepare) their own food are much, much less frequent.

Also most of your argument is "But what if they didn't?" which I think is giving Noncon a conniption.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

The problem with pot is that, unlike alcohol, it's piss-easy to grow and any idiot can do it fairly quickly, where alcohol needs the ingredients, needs to ferment, etc. My grandpa grew up during the Depression and one of his childhood memories was that alcohol was legal to make, just not to sell, and his dad regularly DID make it and even left a portion out for the friendly neighborhood beat cops so they could be merry on their lunch breaks.

Pot, on the other hand, actually had to be removed from regular bird seed because people picked it out and planted it. All pot needs is sun and water and you're set. Put it in your back yard, trim the leaves, and you've got yourself a supply.

Basically, I don't see legalizing pot as helping much. To put it this way, if you simply de-criminalize pot, you get to stop wasting money on finding growers and everyone gets some and things are easy. If you legalize it, depending on the restrictions, you still have to find the growers and see if they have a license and spend time and money regulating it, and then if someone is growing it who's not supposed to be, there's less you can do about it because it's not actually illegal to have anymore, and there's really no good way to tell which pot is from authorized growers and which isn't. Basically, if you're going to legalize and regulate, you're back where you started with an over-complicated mess. Again, this is depending on how its growth is regulated. If we're talking just legalizing its use, all you have to worry about is confiscating it when someone is carrying too much.

Overall, though, I think the idea that with how easy it is to grow, legalization is not going to really solve any problems. Sure, it might siphon a portion of the money into the government, but the idea that people are going to just sit back and let the farmers handle growing it doesn't strike me as realistic.

The fact that police can arrest you for walking around with it is more or less the entirety of the problem, so yeah, I would say that legalizing it would solve the problem.

The prospect of some people skirting tax laws or whatever is a different and minor problem next to spending billions of dollars investigating, prosecuting and incarcerating people for using an popular and relatively harmless yet illegal product.

EDIT: I think the main problem with your argument is it relies on the assumption that people like buying pot from Shifty Pete's buddy Bill who won't sell to you cause him and Pete have unspecified DRAMA right now so instead let's call Joey's cousin Ray-Ray who totally knows a guy who can hook us up except that he's not picking up his phone so let's drive to his place to maybe see if he's around and then pick him up and drive him to the place of the guy who can hook us up which is in the part of town where you get to see crazy homeless men shitting into buckets and then we go up to Ray Ray's buddy's rathole apartment and have to hang out and watch half of Date Movie with him while he digs around under his laundry pile for his shit which isn't ACTUALLY the shit we thought we were buying but it's almost as good if you ignore the seeds and the stems and also it's fifteen dollars more an eighth

...as opposed to

• walk into store of legally licensed retailer

• pay listed price for weed

• have weed

• 4:20 SMOKE WEED EVVY DAY

[Sir Pinkleton]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

EDIT: I think the main problem with your argument is it relies on the assumption that people like buying pot from Shifty Pete's buddy Bill who won't sell to you cause him and Pete have unspecified DRAMA right now so instead let's call Joey's cousin Ray-Ray who totally knows a guy who can hook us up except that he's not picking up his phone so let's drive to his place to maybe see if he's around and then pick him up and drive him to the place of the guy who can hook us up which is in the part of town where you get to see crazy homeless men shitting into buckets and then we go up to Ray Ray's buddy's rathole apartment and have to hang out and watch half of Date Movie with him while he digs around under his laundry pile for his shit which isn't ACTUALLY the shit we thought we were buying but it's almost as good if you ignore the seeds and the stems and also it's fifteen dollars more an eighth

...as opposed to

• walk into store of legally licensed retailer

• pay listed price for weed

• have weed

• go get high

Where's your sense of adventure, man? :p

EDIT: Also, I've nothing to provide content wise really. I'd never smoke weed, but that's a personal reason, so I see little reason to keep it illegal given the evidence.

Actually, I'm going to look up the official reason why pot is illegal right now. Maybe after reading the legalize I can see why. [/optimism]

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Sir Pinkleton

Where's your sense of adventure, man? :p

It died in Ray-Ray's hookup's shithole apartment.

[BitVyper]

Actually, I'm going to look up the official reason why pot is illegal right now. Maybe after reading the legalize I can see why.

I'm pretty sure the official reason is "HAHA FUCK YOU. HIPPIES!"

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

I'm pretty sure the official reason is "HAHA FUCK YOU. HIPPIES!"

Actually if memory serves, Marijuana was made illegal by William Randolph Hearst. I do not know the official reasons right now, but part of it was because of Hemp and how it was a cheaper substitute to Paper and Oil and Hearst owned many paper mills.

Don't quote me on it yet. I need to find the source.