Pokemon Umbral Discussion 34: all your base...

[Bard The 5th LW]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

You're kidding, right?

I'm the only troll allowed in this RP

.

[Dracorion]

I contest that.

Pistols at dawn, sir! I challenge you to a troll-off!

[Bard The 5th LW]

Fine then.

But I reserve rights to cheat.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Yeah, be mean to the guy who can't actually check the RP thread because his internet's so fucking crappy (Goddammit, Vodafone). That's like... I dunno, starting a fist-fight with an armless guy? Kicking a guy with no legs? Something along those lines.
Also, Menarker...


Oh, yeah... well, good point, that. Why didn't I speak up earlier? I unno, really... maybe had something to do with the fact that I was moving across continents... hmmm... what do you think?

Not that it matters, anyway, you're totally right, it's far too late to object to that now, better drop it, ri-ahahahahahahahahaNOOOO.

No, seriously. Maybe it was nerfed already, but that isn't enough.
First, yes, I know, pokemon don't gain rage themselves. Of course, the question is, why can an item that's held by a pokemon cause its master to gain rage. It's not Renny holding the ribbon, after all. Despite this, you're insisting that it be Renny's neighbors, whom Renny gains rage for, not Togekiss' neighbors.

Also, in terms of balance, in practice, this little item is gonna triple Renny's potential to get rage from enemy attacks. Assuming that the rage he gets stems equally from attacking and getting attacked, he's effectively doubling his overall potential to gain rage.

Not utterly imbalanced, I'll admit, but certainly stronger than I think is fair, especially considering the ever-increasing value of rage.

Mind you, I'm not sure how to fix it. Just the two allies adjacent to the pokemon, I take it that'd be too weak for you?
...
Hmm. How about this. Affects the two closest pokemon to either side (not humans). In this case, that'd be Nidoqueen, Shaymin, Palkia and Aria.
Renny gets 5 rage every time one of them get rage for taking damage. But to get this rage, Togekiss has to take a certain amount of 'sympathy damage', not too huge, but significant. Maybe 1/4th of the damage taken by the actual target. If this damage is blocked, for whatever reason, Renny gets no rage.

That'd be less exploitable, and it'd have a downside of sorts. How about it?

I'm going to break this down into chunks.

Of course, the question is, why can an item that's held by a pokemon cause its master to gain rage. It's not Renny holding the ribbon, after all. Despite this, you're insisting that it be Renny's neighbors, whom Renny gains rage for, not Togekiss' neighbors.

Then I should ask why Pierce gains rage when his pokemons does a basic attack. Or why Harliette can use the "emotion and rage" gathered by her pokemons attacking or being hit, to empower HER ability to use her shotgun. "Rage" is a misnomer of sort that AB uses because it is convenient enough and kinda implies that both the trainer/slayer/pokebrids and whatever pokemons they have are shared in emotion/passion in some manner or fashion. Despite that, a pokemon can attack (building up rage/emotions) and get hurt (angered/emotional)... but then it could get knocked out... Does that rage disappear because that pokemon who was feeling the rage is now out of combat? No! The result is that the rage still exists as it could be used by the trainer either through Love-Techs (The rage is used on someone who may very well be miles away from one's current location like Pierce/Chizuru), or another pokemon who has not even see the battle and known what is going on, among other examples! Thus your argument (on that point for sure) is pretty much null, since even the most basics of Rage rules and situations is fighting against your argument.

Thematically, Togekiss is the harbringer of peace and happiness and dislike strife (It helps that Renny shares the same personality). The species of Togepis/Togetic/Togekiss all have the ability to comfort and "bless" people. The item just makes that particular trait more of a linked connection with Renny. When Togekiss sees those to itself hurt, it amplifies that innate ability to the point where that "rage" could be a power source for anything its partner/master Renny can use. It's "ability" to protect (Serene Blessing) or attack viciously (Divide/Focus) comes from the rage that is gathered by Renny. So basically, by gathering rage, it is basically giving the option of empowering itself to pay retribution on the foe, or protect someone from further harm.

A couple of things more...

Mind you, I'm not sure how to fix it. Just the two allies adjacent to the pokemon, I take it that'd be too weak for you?

In a double pokemon battle like we have been constantly doing, one of Togekiss's neighbors would always be the other of Renny's pokemon (either to the right or left of Togekiss,) which does not help at all since Renny would gain rage if his own pokemon were hurt anyhow. And yes, so very very narrow to the point of bordering useless.

Also, in terms of balance, in practice, this little item is gonna triple Renny's potential to get rage from enemy attacks. Assuming that the rage he gets stems equally from attacking and getting attacked, he's effectively doubling his overall potential to gain rage.

The item only works upon said neighbors getting hurt and only when Togekiss is on the field (and I use the other pokemons very frequently too, except for perhaps Umbreon). Since the foe's attacks can't be controlled except by negating attacks which would hamper getting rage (AB controls whom the enemy attack) It's really difficult to "exploit" because there is really no matter of control. It's really more of potential insurance to help back up the others, although it doesn't help Renny if his pokemons are the one being attacked.

Hmm. How about this. Affects the two closest pokemon to either side (not humans). In this case, that'd be Nidoqueen, Shaymin, Palkia and Aria.
Renny gets 5 rage every time one of them get rage for taking damage. But to get this rage, Togekiss has to take a certain amount of 'sympathy damage', not too huge, but significant. Maybe 1/4th of the damage taken by the actual target. If this damage is blocked, for whatever reason, Renny gets no rage.

This borders on retarded. Why should Togekiss be hurt just because it is "passionately enraged" with an ally nearby is hurt? Of course, if the neighbors never get hurt, then the rage won't happen to begin with.

Oh, yeah... well, good point, that. Why didn't I speak up earlier? I unno, really... maybe had something to do with the fact that I was moving across continents... hmmm... what do you think?

What I meant was why didn't you object to it in the first battle of the mission where it was used, especially after you came back. Really, the effect was small enough (even when Renny was beside Harliette) that you didn't even notice it until this current second time around, even though I even posted its effect for everyone to notice for when AB would write up his post. The item was made before the mission started. It was fine enough the first time around. And now, we haven't even seen the results of the second time around (I was just reminding AB of the effect) and you're calling out foul play despite the fact that the first result was allowed to pass unmolested or even accepted.


Really, it's a strong item, but not really to the extent that it invalidates other people's items/skills/upgrades, including the RDPA which easily is a menace and you could have next mission if you so wished.

[Dracorion]

Hey AB, you're a loser!

And you're dumb!

[Bard The 5th LW]

You never did show up with those pistols at dawn Drac.

D:<

[Astral Harmony]

I think I decided to just take two days making a post for some reason.

EDIT: It's finally done and right now, I don't give a damn what's wrong with it. I'm so exhausted. I really need to take breaks and do exercises to reset my brain.

[Dracorion]

So. Bunch of wasted attacks.

Teach me to overestimate unseen opponents again.

Also, Pierce's Rage should be 55, not 45.

Anyway, you know what I'm thinkin'? I'm thinking Charlotte uses Future Shock to take advantage of the water.

Man, Mio turns out to be a Ruin type and both of Pierce's dragons are out of it.

[Menarker]

*Is pretty happy that the enhanced protection effect worked against an almighty typed attack.*

Well, the dominated Civilian doesn't seem to be a huge threat at all. We could probably just put trainer attacks there, provided Pierce or Charlotte don't flinch from the thought of having to put down a human. ^^; (Charlotte might even have a field day)

The battlebot is basically a Slayer with status immunity and a Sign-Tech that is basically a Normal typed DyamnicPunch. Immune to normal type attacks. Resistant to Rock, Steel, Dark and Fighting.

Cradiliy is noteworthy due to a variety of effects. Fortunately, it can be OHKOed by Kurika.
A: Can't just attack it randomly with pokemons or their items will be stolen and discarded.
B: It reflects special attacks (Thank god I didn't choose that location to Air Slash).
C: If it lands a critical hit, it OHKOs instead of double damage.
D: Its Merc-Tech "ejects" a target from combat for two turns before dealing almighty damage and lower it stats.
E: Its special ability prevents the side effects of attacks (anything that could be boosted by Serene Grace). This won't stop moves that specifically does an effect like Thunder Wave's Paralysis, although it will stop the same status from a Body Slam for example.
F: Solid Rock reduces super effective damage to 3/4. A move that would deal 2x damage will instead deal 1.5x damage, and a move would deal 4x will instead deal 3. (Quoted from Bulbapedia)


Seviper is a bit of a pest...
A: It evades and counters physical attacks. Thank goodness it was attacked by Air Slash instead.
B: Its poison attacks will always inflict "Toxic" level damage.
C: Clear Body prevents stats loss.
D: Marvel Scale increases its defense when it has a status affliction. (Similar to Guts). This means that we COULD use moves like sleep or paralysis, but it'll become sturdier and tougher to beat, even though the base stats of the pokemon is crap. Although it's risky to rely on those statuses because...
E: Skin Skin has 30% chance every turn of removing any non-voltiale status. (Meaning it'll remove poison, sleep, burn, paralysis and anything that would remain with a pokemon even if it was switched out.)
F: It's Merc-Tech seems to be a two target hitter. The first is OHKOed and the other is hit with a noncurable version of Toxic that remains for the whole battle.


Mio is a massive threat, but we know that already, given that she is a boss and a ruin type at that. Best means of measure might be to use those "Anti-Rage-Rockets" on her?
A: Has slightly slayer-ish diversity in attacks while having a ruin types sheer power.
B: Has Ruin type in terms of its resistances and weaknesses.
C: Phantasmal Swipe (Ghost, 200 Power, Always Hit, 50% Death) OUCH!
D: Chroma Edge (Ruin, 200 Power, 100 Acc) OUCH, STABBED!
E: Ion Cluster (Ruin, 2 Targets, 150 Power, 80 Acc) AOE STAB. I hope it misses!
F: Shadow Blade (Dark, 200 Power, 100 Acc, 75% Flinch) Flinches better than my Togekiss or Shaymin. (Although Shaymin is only 5% away atm due to an item)
G: Her Sign-Tech is a powerful and dibilibating tech which will practically force us to be constantly switching out to avoid confusion.

[Bard The 5th LW]

So why is Mio ten? Seriously, how is that relevant?