Pokemon Umbral Theatre 14: Beloved Godlord Dracorion

[Bard The 5th LW]

I hate to admit it, but he does sort of have a point. Impact has things falling pretty well in place for him.

However, its not like Pierce really has ambitions.

[Dracorion]

Sure, Impact has ambitions.

However, Geminex has gone out of his way repeatedly to tell us that Impact's current ambitions are not "TAKE OVER THE WORLD, LAUGH EVILLY".

So Impact somehow becoming that has nothing to do with his ambitions, it has to do with Geminex's ambitions for his character.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Okay, I was actually gonan wait until tomorrow to post this and go to sleep now, but then I saw you all being happy and carefree and I was all like 'NOT ON MY WATCH'.

Ok, I'll admit that is one of the scarier and yet funnier reactions I seen from you. Seriously. You mentally conjured the voice of Xykon from Order of the Stick during the book of "Start of Darkness" which has something almost exactly like this situation.

In regards to Mollesk's attack...
For the love of god, allright. Have your little attack. I'm even gonna ignore the fact that it's way stronger than it should be.
BUT.
That is the last time you will customize Mollesk. Both in this and the next RP. That means no x-th level Mollesk, no ability switch, nothing. Because you'd be neglecting your other pokemon otherwise.

Agreed. Promise. Quote it and save it for later if you want to. I just wanted a decent STAB move for the bug type it had which is effectively justified by how Enmakki and Revenard have their own custom moves. I already got upgrades for Swampert and Umbreon on the way and in the future, Togekiss and Magnezone might be good targets for upgrades too. Shaymin is pretty balanced/solid although maybe a little one in the future would be neat.

As for the fact that my "Author Avatar" wants to molest people? Actually, I'm intending for Mollesk to kinda do that on the fly without Renny expecting it. Seriously, you think Renny would have thought to train Mollesk to molest people? I kinda have TWO Author States. One for Renny specifically as the Author Avatar... and the other is more me using all my pokemons, Renny and the NPCs to paint a certain ... side of the story we're all sharing.

In regards to the effectiveness of defense:
A) This point... what? What're you saying here? Sure, the enemies have more units. But so do we. If they gang up on a defender, the defender dies. But they spend three or four attacks, the trainer gains corresponding rage, and once the Defender is dead, they only have 1 or 2 attacks to hit the rest of our team with, which can then strike back much more powerfully. The defender won't have done much damage, but the team will have benefited greatly. Hell, since offensive pokemon take less hits to kill, this is actually a point in favor of defensive pokemon! Since they're more likely to survive for longer, they're also more likely to get in a few buffs.
B) Naaah. Status moves are totally valuable. I mean, even if you sleep an enemy, they're gonna be out of combat for 2-3 turns at least. Have your defender constantly sleep, and they can on average tie up two enemies constantly, without even needing an attack stat. How's that weak? If you disagree, just ask matt. Count the number of times he's used a sleep move. And this doesn't just apply to sleep, it works with confusion, burn (for the attack decrease) even paralysis if you do some damage beforehand. Status is totally a viable method of support. You just aren't using it.
c) What's with all the points about buffs? Even if these were valid, they'd apply to offensive types as well. Sure, buffing is harder than it used to be, but it's not just hard for defensive types. Easier, in fact, than for offensive types. You seem to be less focused on listing reasons 'why defensive tactics aren't good' and more reasons 'why mollesk doesn't work as well as I'd like'.
D) Depends. If we have high-HP opponents, these can be quite valuable. Toxic isn't great, but if we incapacitate and DOT an individual opponent, we can take out a potentially pretty powerful enemy without investing too many attacks.
E) I think your problem is that you're still trying to fight battles like you'd fight them in the games. Sure, you can't stall the enemy unless everyone suddenly deploys a Mollesk. But just because your old tactics don't work doesn't mean that the pokemon are useless! They're pretty hard to kill. Meaning that, usually, we can count on enemies not eliminating them too quickly. Which, in turn, means they're reliable, and usually have some time on the battlefield. If they do get dangerous enough for the enemy to want to eliminate them, the enemy's gonna need quite a lot of firepower to take one down. They're an investment, of sorts. Not to mention that if it looks like shit is about to start getting real, you can deploy defensive types to take the hits until you've gagued the enemy's strength. And that can be pretty damn valuable. Plus, they take more hits, means they give more rage and healing items work better. Defensive types have lots of uses, both in-combat (status, buffing, generally supporting) and 'tactically'. They're just as valuable as offensive builds!
F) See D. Sure, DOT might not be useful all the time, but it can be pretty good. Though it could use a buff. Not a buff to the effect itself... but if a attack poisoned two targets instead of just one, it'd be a lot more viable. Your guys' thoughts?
G) Once again, I'm thinking status moves can be really effective, if used right. Still, might be worth a buff... Let's observe this. We can decide during the course of this mission.

First, in regards to first part I colored in red, I said in my last post that I felt that due to the customization, Mollesk IS working as well as I hoped he would from a defensive stand-point because the points that I listed were adverted in his case. The points I listed above was more what I thought other defensive pokemons in general have problems with, including what I felt Umbreon was having problems with, since she seems to faint too easily. Swampert lasts longer than she does and while he has just a smidge more stamina, his defenses are both significantly lower than hers.

As for buffing status affliction moves, I think that would be a nice idea. Especially for moves like Confuse Ray, Toxic, Thunder Wave and potentially Will o Wisp that specifically only do status and nothing else and don't stop foes from actually attacking. Sleep and Frozen do usually stop foes from attacking 100% when they hit the foe though and thus are probably powerful enough to leave alone. Of course, would like to hear what the others think.

In that vein, I like the '+1 stat when serene grace activates' thing. That can work.

Skipping on quoting the rest of the things that you typed and I have read because you find this suggestion potentially viable and this was what I aiming for when I suggested a different custom item. Being able to bypass a lengthy and tedious argument by compromising in a different fashion with something more agreeable for both sides. If we can work on an item like this being approved, then we can nip most of the argument and a remove a big source of frustration in the bud.

So... for the proposed new item.

Effect: Whenever a secondary effect triggers on a target from a move that could benefit from Serene Grace, choose any stat that can be boosted (including accuracy and evasion) and add +1 to it stage.

Yay? Nay? Concerns or changes? Keep in mind that secondary effects also have their success rate doubled when hitting targets that are weak to said attack. So Ancient Power would have a 40% chance of success when hitting a fire type. Air Slash be 100% proc on anything weak to flying. That sort of thing.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

So... for the proposed new item.

Effect: Whenever a secondary effect triggers on a target from a move that could benefit from Serene Grace, choose any stat that can be boosted (including accuracy and evasion) and add +1 to it stage.

Yay? Nay? Concerns or changes? Keep in mind that secondary effects also have their success rate doubled when hitting targets that are weak to said attack. So Ancient Power would have a 40% chance of success when hitting a fire type. Air Slash be 100% proc on anything weak to flying. That sort of thing.

... What?

It's late and I don't wanna have to figure out what you just said.

[Menarker]

Here is a completely abbreviated version of the conversation, so you may be able to contribute.

- Gem doesn't like my custom item that Togekiss currently has, due to balance issues and what not.
- Cue heated debate which is also stoked up by other arguments stemming from other topics.
- Somewhere down the line, I proposed that we could end some of the painful parts by me replacing the item with a different one that is more acceptable to me and everyone else and thus just hand-waving the existence of the current one.
- First attempt to propose it failed on account of it being seen as too powerful and the delivered tone accidently being seen a insult/mocking gesture to him.
- Second attempt to propose a different item leaves him potentially interested in considering one of the variants, thinking it could be viable option.



Since there is now an item that he's willing to consider as an acceptable replacement item, I typed up a more formal description of the effect of said item, for his and everyone else' discussion. If it succeeds, the old item is removed and this one put in its place. No more rage generation arguments in regard to the item.


Staunch Supporter's Bandanna
Effect: Whenever a secondary effect triggers on a target from a move that could benefit from Serene Grace, choose any stat that can be boosted (including accuracy and evasion) and add 1 stage boost to it.


Example: Togekiss hits a Raticate with Air Slash. Due to Serene Grace, Togekiss has 60% chance of flinching the foe. It succeeds and Raticate is flinched. The item triggers and Togekiss gains +1 stage boost to any stat that can be boosted.

Example 2: Togekiss attacks two slayers with Heat Wave. Due to a total fluke of luck, the 20% chance of burning procs on both of them and Togekiss can apply 2 stat boosts any way he want.

Example 3: Togekiss attacks two foes again with Heat Wave. One is a grass type and the other is a water type. Heat Wave has a 40% chance of proccing on the grass type and a 10% chance of proccing on the water type. It only procs on the grass type, and thus Togekiss only gets +1 boost to a stat.

Example 4: Togekiss hits a Charizard with AncientPower. Since the move is quad effective, the chance of the move activating is HUGE. Base chance of it activating is 10%. Doubled with Serene Grace is 20%. Quad that is 80%. So Togekiss has a huge chance of getting +1 to the 5 primary stats (Ancientpower) and +1 to any stats on top of that (the item).

Example 5: Same as Example 1, but this time, Togekiss uses Divide on Air Slash and manages to flinch both foes. Two +1 stage boosts are awarded.


EDIT: Gem, you also kinda need to comment on the battle plan posted early in this thread, since Drac is kinda hoping for a response.

EDIT: I realize I forgot to answer Gem's question about what was the custom move I was going to give Umbreon as my "Pokemon Trainer 5 upgrade". I know I posted it repeatably though and it has been discussed already. Ah well. Here it is again.

Scapegoat (Dark Status move)
Select any friendly target (yourself included). All moves that would target that ally/yourself is redirected to a different ally/yourself of the user's choice. If the pokemon is attacked with a move that hit multiple opponent, reduce its power by 50% but the attack is not prevented. If the scapegoated pokemon is knocked out, all moves still get redirected and is wasted.

You saw it way way back in discussion thread 20. You thought it was ok although you were confused for a bit. I answered your question clarifying the bit you were confused on and you never said anything about the move since.
http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...1&postcount=83

It got re-discussed again during the time we talked about Ascended Classes later on because this move is basically the grandfather to the Mock technique that Pierce is to have for his demon upgrade.

[DanteFalcon]

Any and all buffs to my main tactics, a.k.a. status effects, is greatly appreciated. So long as I don't have to figure them all out.

Cause then you know, it'd never get done.

[Astral Harmony]

For me, it's always the Grass starter. Bulbasaur, Chikorita, Treecko, Turtwig, and whatever that fifth gen one'll be called.

My team is much too large than it necessarily has to be. In addition to the starter, I tend to train seventeen other Pokemon, one of each type, including a Grass type even though I always pick that for my starter. I train only Pokemon in the current generation of the game I play, so, for HeartGold, I've got Spinarak (Bug), Flaafy (Electric), Skiploom (Grass), Dunsparce (Normal), Pineco (Steel when it evolves), and Furret (the Pokemon I'm training for my Pokewalker).

I also train Pokemon I get in eggs as plot points, so there's Togetic.

And then throw in the Pokemon I get from trades by NPCs, so I'm working on an Onix and Machoke as well (which reminds me, I should trade that sometime to evolve it).

And, of course, Legendaries. So, near the end, I'm training no less than...oh, maybe around thirty or more Pokemon. Pokemon games take a long time for me to complete, but I'm a devoted Trainer.

I try to keep it at ten levels per gym, so level 10 for the first gym, level 20 for the second one, blah-blah-blah. Having a large, diverse team like that really helps in not screwing up certain Pokemon with those goddamn HMs and necessary TMs like Flash and Headbutt.

Given the lower level wild Pokemon in HeartGold, it can be a real pain to keep up to my own way of playing these games.

Come to think of it, I should pick up Hoothoot as my Flying. I always thought Noctowl was badass.

And for those of you who think I pick shitty Pokemon for my team, I really only play Pokemon for fun. I train particular Pokemon because I like 'em, not because I think they'll make a unstoppable dream team, even though a lot of them are surprisingly tough.

-----

Speaking about Pierce being the sequel's protagonist, I suppose he could very well be. However, I won't explain why, but Arceus plays an immense role in the sequel, and guess which of you has that Legendary in "her" kung fu grip?

[Geminex]

Speaking about Pierce being the sequel's protagonist, I suppose he could very well be. However, I won't explain why, but Arceus plays an immense role in the sequel, and guess which of you has that Legendary in "her" kung fu grip?

Why are we making certain characters more important than others at all? I mean, what justification is there to go 'Yep, this is the main character'? We all contribute to the RP.
And even if some characters are more important than others, I'd say it's pretty unfair of the DM to decide who should be imporant and who not. Let that develop by itself, through inter-character interactions. The DM should remain neutral when it comes to this.

And Menarker, the item...
Hmm...
One point I'd add is that it can only activate once per attack. Meaning that attacks that hit two targets can still only give a +1 boost. This is probably fairly minor, but eh.
Also, why is it suddenly any attribute? Your initial proposal was one specific attribute (you used attack), and I liked that. Any attribute of your choice, particularly that you can pick crit and evasion as well... eeeh. If we make it random, yes. But I don't like that you get to pick out of everything. Unless it's thematic in some way I missed?
I'd be happy if you could pick either defensive stat.

[Astral Harmony]

Actually, it's more like you guys are stumbling into important plot points. Bard picked Arceus. Arceus is important to the plot. So by having it, Charlotte is important.

Now, if we're talking about the actual people behind the characters, then I am indeed neutral. I happen to like all of you and your characters very much, and I'm trying to not show favoritism, but a DM and the story's plot are two entirely different beasts. Some of the time, even I can't control certain things that happens, like what's going to happen with Moera...hee hee hee...

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Why are we making certain characters more important than others at all? I mean, what justification is there to go 'Yep, this is the main character'? We all contribute to the RP.
And even if some characters are more important than others, I'd say it's pretty unfair of the DM to decide who should be imporant and who not. Let that develop by itself, through inter-character interactions. The DM should remain neutral when it comes to this.

Yeah, I pretty much agree that we shouldn't make a specific character THE main character, although technically there could be quite a few of those. But I can understand what's going on. It's not that we're TRYING to make any specific character the main character. Most of us are pretty genre savvy, AB included, so when we see characters leaning toward certain plot devices, it only seems natural to percieve someone as a particularly influencial character. Drac has many of the tropes of the hero in some aspects (the more masculine and badass tropes) and thus has been referred to as a potential hero in AB's eyes, as well as in the eyes of some NPCs (like Shizuka who called him among other Watchmen as the eye of the storm). Renny has other aspects of the hero including a sort of indiscriminate charity, shining personality, an almost magnetic pull for allies and his own source of courage and frustrations of sort. Once again, AB has frequently referred to Renny as a likely hero character, especially in the eyes of NPCs like Rayleen who tried to make him group leader and those like Lola who see him as someone trying to make the best in life for himself and others in very testing times.

We should probably all assume that every one of us is going to be PLOT-CRUCIAL at some point. We're all PCs! Impact is just more obvious about it, since he's designated as a sort of antagonist catalyst to help spur the next half of the plot with world-changing influence. Charlotte, aside from whatever is being discussed behind PMs, is going to have access to a very powerful Mac-Guffin. Renny and Pierce are kinda sharing the Hero pedestal although with some varying different traits to them. Matthias however? He's a wild card at the moment... and I get the feeling he likes it that way.

And Menarker, the item...
Hmm...
One point I'd add is that it can only activate once per attack. Meaning that attacks that hit two targets can still only give a +1 boost. This is probably fairly minor, but eh.
Also, why is it suddenly any attribute? Your initial proposal was one specific attribute (you used attack), and I liked that. Any attribute of your choice, particularly that you can pick crit and evasion as well... eeeh. If we make it random, yes. But I don't like that you get to pick out of everything. Unless it's thematic in some way I missed?
I'd be happy if you could pick either defensive stat.

Actually, I was just giving a simple example to make a baseline for the item. It's not set in stone anyhow. Also, keep in mind that while crit isn't technically a stat that can be improved directly, it's now directly related to speed. But you probably were thinking of that.

How about we keep it limited to Special Attack (the attack stat that Togekiss use) and both defenses? Three viable options without going into stats that are useless (Attack) or the more unusual ones like Evasion and accuracy.

As for it not triggering twice... This is me just bargaining here, but how about allowing it to trigger both times, but they can't both be applied to the same stat in the same round? Like if it triggers both times on Heat Wave (chances of success is less than half on merely super effective foes for ONE), it can only go to Special Attack and one of the defenses or both defenses and not Special Attack.

Pretty much the only attack that Togekiss has that hits for more than 50% success rate without a quad effectiveness boost is the single target Air Slash anyhow. The rest are not that reliable with 40% success rate at best with a super effective hit.