Mafia: Basic

[Mesden]

Still finishing this game out, people. So you know.

Adressing Twid. Seriously, saying "I'm lazy." to EVERYTHING is not a defense and never will be one.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by The Wizard Who Did It

Worked out as in we got a mafia, and I didn't vote a townie which could look even more suspicious on my record.

First off, don't think I didn't notice that subtle way of associating yourself with the rest of us. Insinuating talk is really only something someone scummy would use. Mesden never had to do that.

Also, let's go back a little. If my memory serves me, it was a toss-up between Catlover and B Real. One we now know is a townie, and the other we now know is a mafia. They were both very close in votes. Now, I know my vote WAS surplus, but it was as necessary as any other persons. I can point out anybody but the person who initially voted for Catlover and say that person's vote wasn't necessary, which it wasn't. So, superfluous... maybe, but just as much as most peoples.

Actually I'd say all the votes up to and including the tiebreaker were much more important than the last 2. (Ogianres, and you last.)

Indeed, someone could have changed their mind, but we can't deal with "ifs". The fact of the matter was, even if one had, your vote still would have been excess. Time was drawing to a close, and you jumped ship as it was about to leave harbor.

Yes, I am purposefully leaving out the fact that I voted near the end of the killing Catlover train. However, I’m not in the mood to try to provide an argument as for why it doesn’t always matter (time issues, access to computer, etc.), mainly because the above doesn’t apply to me. I’m just lazy, and although that is/was dangerous to the town on its own, it’s also all the explanation I need to give. Simply because it’s the truth.

Not near the end. AT the end. And Catlover had been under suspicion about halfway into the day. Wheras you had no trouble at all catching the last minute hanging of Ogianres.

While you can't always decide when you vote, it's not something we can throw away. It really does reflect on who voted. For most extreme example, look at who is the first person to vote. They are under even more scrutiny. And rightfully so. So if you'll agree that all votes are important not only for who they are, but when they are voted for. Hell, even unvoting should be taken into account. (Mafiates voting fellow mafiates, then unvoting to try and stop bandwagoning for instance.)

EDIT: Looked back. My vote was surplus by two. Whatever. It still could have hypothetically helped, like any surplus vote is supposed to do.

There's that word again. Hypothetically. Wow, you and CmP really seem to want to deal in the "what if's" department. And I think you know how I feel about him in this game. (CmP the forumite=cool (introduced me to Qwantz), but CmP in-game=*blood vessals pop*)
Yeah, that last part was humor.

I know. I just had to mention it so there wasn’t an inconsistency in my procrastination point.

At first, I was just going to skip over this part, but the way you worded it as a reflection of your play style drew red flags upon further thought.

"(in)consistency". That word. As opposed to logic. Hmmm, ya know, I think a mafiate might be more concerned with consistency as a defense instead of logic. (Ex: Catlover trying to say his random voting was par for the course. (Or having others suggest it for him...)) And that he was consistently stupid (no mean to insult, but that's practically what he said.)).

How true. But if you realize that, don't make it sound when you accuse me that I alone voted for him. Or that it really means anything. As previously stated multiple times, not all non voters against a townie are townie, and not all voters are mafia. I could, logically, easily fall into either category.

Votes DO mean something. As I said, numerous times, they are the one thing which you can't argue with. They are fact. You can talk about intentions and what ifs all you want, but that won't change who you voted for and when.

And that the only thing you did to help the town was vote for the mafiate? Which didn't even help as much as you'd like others to think as I've already stated.

And no, I am not denying the fact that I could be a mafia. [b]I know the truth, but since no one else does, that doesn’t seem to matter.[b]

Okay that, that right there. That pisses me off. With so much fury. That is the highest degree of scumminess I can think of. "I'm innocent because I say I am." Yeah. That's it. After CmP goes down, I'm coming after you.

There was another reason why I barely posted in the first place... I think I mentioned it in the first post... Oh yeah! It was because I had nothing to say.

Then FIND something to say. Look at posts. Analyze things. Be helpful. DO SOMETHING!

Like I said, inactives are bad. And if the only thing you can do is point fingers that A) Don't help and B) Lynch townies, then you are even worse, because you are an active danger. And it seems all our mafiates are considered to be active so far.

I would also like to mention that I have also had school on the back of my mind, so I haven’t really thought about this game too much. (the reason why I have nothing to say) Is that a crime? Only in the fact that then I am/was useless, but now that school’s out it seems that I might be posting in here more than once a game day.

Then I highly suggest you do everything in your power to help the town, because otherwise, you'll be getting my vote after CmP goes down.

I know it's not good for the town. And I knew I was eventually going to get eaten out for this. I go back to the school point, and leave it at that.

We all have lives. But only posting 3 times over the course of a couple of weeks is still pretty inexcusable.

Apparently, but it didn't end up being the case. And... how is it dangerous? I'm curious to hear your view on this.

How did it not end up being the case? And it's dangerous because if you don't know what the towns best interests are, and aren't working towards them, that only helps the mafia. Willfully or not.

Ah, but percentages don't really mean anything here. I decisively made two votes. Whereas the percentages show that I could be throwing them out willy-nilly, like your hypothetical here, if you actually look at how many votes I made it shows that I made sure that I knew who I wanted to vote for that night before I voted for them.

First off, why shouldn't percentages mean anything? I should think that someone who posts a lot but never votes would eventually draw attention to themselves. Someone who rarely posts, but always votes should logically draw the same attention.

Just because you are sure of who you vote for, doesn't make it any less innocent. It's in being able to apply logic it to it that shows it's veracity.

The possiblity is there, and you should be wary of it. However, the truth was I didn't want to defend myself against points that hadn't been made yet. The whole “assume makes an ass out of you and me” thing.

However, when most of your points revolves around, "I'm lazy" and "school", I really don't see any need to wait for my points. And when the rest can be shot so full of holes they don't hold watever, I can see why you'd want to wait.

This is going to sound incredibly stupid, but I was waiting for someone to make that point. And now I will expand on what I meant...

We're voting for this guy. That means that at this rate he is going to die anyway. Now, the problem is that then we have another night at the mercy of the mafia. I mean, it's a possibility that tonight we could get lucky and the vig gets a mafia while the mafia only gets a townie. (or the weird doctor thing of CMP's that I sped-read through takes effect and he blocks the mafia.) So, by using our vote on this guy, we use up the main weapon the town has: the lynching. However, if we get him kicked out, he's still gone and not bothering us with his lurkerness anymore, but we also still have our main weapon available to us this game day.

And you basically just resaid what I said, even though you said it first. Changing it from "2 for one" to my comparisons about the town's resources. Wow.

Moving on (and backwards), why the hell would anyone want to vote for another person CmP got a vote started for? Does ANYONE trust his track record?

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

TWG, it isn't voting for someone CMP said. It is getting rid of the inactive players so we can actually play the game right.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by Silly Kitty

TWG, it isn't voting for someone CMP said. It is getting rid of the inactive players so we can actually play the game right.

But we shouldn't have to lynch inactive players. Newb should take care of that.

And something else I forgot to add to my post before this about Twiddy,

Originally Posted by The Wizard Who Did It

(or the weird doctor thing of CMP's that I sped-read through takes effect and he blocks the mafia.)

Yeah, I'm totally going to call bullshit on you for that.

First off, we have no proof that it's true for one, and CmP himself said it probably wasn't going to take effect.

But it's real purpose I guess would be a subtle way of saying CmP is innocent.

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

Sorry about the lack of quotes, but I'm a bit out of it Mafia wise.

TWG, two things. One, you're being a little over agressive. It may be this new found freedom of townieness, but it's a little drastic. I'll ask you to tone downa wee bit.

Two, as far as the percentage thing goes, that's about as pointless as it gets in this game. You can't judge him on how many decisive votes(Not random, mind you) he's had.

What I'm worried about IS the decisive posts. How it was so easy for him to just up and vote for those people without a second thought.

There's a chance he knew their allignement. And honestly, just taking the votes(Not the timing) makes you look good. Watch.

"Vote for a mafiate."

"Vote for a townie."

It LOOKS like an honest record. It's also a something I was going to use next time I would have been a mafiate. (I'm being honest here. Faking an innocent record was my next plan.)

And his only excuse at the beginning was laziness. Now he's bringing up other points that he could've made before. It's a bit desperate.

As of now, if you weren't a townie, he'd be playing the passive person in the argument. And we all know how much more subtle influence that side takes. Subtle influence being what a mafiate wants, where as a townie wants a more direct appeal.

Here's my Mafiate know how for the last time guys. He's really thinking like me and using it. Dwell on that while I Vote: The Wizard Who Did It.

Edit: I had a dyslexic moment!

[h4x.m4g3]

Twiddy, I knew what you meant, however I just didn't like the way you said it, which is why you still get my FoS. The 'Two for one' sounds like you're a little too gleeful about increasing the rate in which our numbers decrease. The only way the town would waste its weapon, is if the majority voted to lynch the inactives.

In fact this whole 'lynch the inactives thing' seems like it could be a mafia trick to make us waste a lynch, when time is becoming critical. So I look back to see how this plot came to be, and find out it developped by: Silly Kitty proposing, and listing a post count, CmP making the first vote against Big Mac, and then Thundergod_Cid supporting it (making the second vote.) That's where the vote trail ends.

Also I'm against lynching the lurks, because Newb hasn't been making any comments, remarks, about night roles not getting sent in. Which means either A, they send in their roles and never post or B, they don't have a role, or at least not a role that requires them to contact the GM (only the mafia don has to PM the GM, the others just debate.)

And now I would like to retract a previously stupidly made statement I made, about beleiving CmP's trait. Apparently my brain was dead then, since I didn't think the man who brought Mafia to the NPF, wouldn't know plenty of trait/jobs from other games. And also I forgot that traits are independent of jobs (could the mafia get their own doc, in through this trait protect from the vig?.)

Now for my vote, I find the time is right to Vote: CmP. He managed to deceive me into voting for Orginaries, but I will not be conned into voting for an inactive.

I would just like to warn everyone, my internet access is flicking in and out, I'm still playing, but my post may be sporadic (so far it seems to work best in the night.

[Silly Kitty]

The "lynching the inactive" thing would actually hurt the mafia if you think about it. Wanna know how? I shall tell you! Newb kicks POS and Bigmac for their in activeness. That leaves us with 11 players. If the town lynches a townie that leaves us with 10. If the vig didn't hit mafia tonight that would leave us with 8 players. The mafia would win because half the town is mafia. *shrug* I was just thinking lynching the inactive would be a safer bet but if Newb kicks them out then we just need to hope we lynch a mafiate today or the vig hits mafia tonight.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by Silly Kitty

The "lynching the inactive" thing would actually hurt the mafia if you think about it. Wanna know how? I shall tell you! Newb kicks POS and Bigmac for their in activeness. That leaves us with 11 players. If the town lynches a townie that leaves us with 10. If the vig didn't hit mafia tonight that would leave us with 8 players. The mafia would win because half the town is mafia. *shrug* I was just thinking lynching the inactive would be a safer bet but if Newb kicks them out then we just need to hope we lynch a mafiate today or the vig hits mafia tonight.

That's surmising that POS and Bigmac are actually townies. And if they are, then we shouldn't be lynching them.

And if they aren't, then they should be kicked anyway. Just because you have a role, doesn't offer any special sort of protection. The only role we don't know is active is the PO. And if either of them is the PO, then we might as well give up now, as this game really is just a crapshoot. (How many people have dropped out/quit anyway? Talk about unfair advantage to the mafia.)

The Wandering God

[Silly Kitty]

You aren't even listening to what I'm saying. I was saying that lynching them would give the town more time to find mafia. If we don't hit mafia, if Big Mac or POS aren't mafia, and if the vig doesn't hit mafia. The game is over. Mafia wins. That is why I wanted to lynch instead of kick. I'm sorry I wanted to make the game last longer.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by Silly Kitty

You aren't even listening to what I'm saying. I was saying that lynching them would give the town more time to find mafia. If we don't hit mafia, if Big Mac or POS aren't mafia, and if the vig doesn't hit mafia. The game is over. Mafia wins. That is why I wanted to lynch instead of kick. I'm sorry I wanted to make the game last longer.

I am listening to what you are saying.

But that's 3 ifs.

I suggest we vote for CmP, have the Vig hit Twiddy, and let Newb explain POS and Big Mac.

Or maybe the vig could just sit out tonight if you are that worried. They don't HAVE to make a hit.

But again, we shouldn't have to waste a lynch on inactives. If they are mafia, they should get kicked. And if they aren't, they haven't been helping anyway and we shouldn't waste a lynch on them.

The Wandering God