Mafia: Basic

[Bailey]

CMP
TWG
Crazy Ben
H4x

Twiddy
Mes

Big Mac
CmP
Thundergod Cid


Deadline is either Friday noon or any time between Friday 6 and 10 pm, depending on how my day ends up going.

[CallmePrismatic]

So Newb, any confirmation either way about the kicking out of inactives?

And POS, is that a joke to say you're here watching but don't have time for anything concrete to add, or was Silly Kitty correct in recalling that you wanted to be taken out if you were compulsed into inactitude?

[Bailey]

I won't remove anybody who is affecting the game unless they ask me to.

[h4x.m4g3]

Originally Posted by CallmePrismatic

On the other hand, if you think I made it up because it couldn't be verified, that's false. Let the PO or Reporter waste a Night investigating me. Although, to indulge in some Mesden-esque "If I were a mafiate" pondering, a mafiate who wants to fake-claim would probably say they were the PO. At that point the real PO would be forced to step up, and even if the mafiate died he would have succeeded in getting the PO to show himself.

I already covered that once, just don't believe any roleclaims and urge the reporter to investigate the claim that night. Here's a link.
This way, should the reporter do his/her job, no PO is revealed and no one has to be fooled by the fake PO, with little downside at all (if they've already roleclaimed and are the real PO, the mafia is immeadiately going to target them, and if they're a mafia fake, we learn the truth. In fact the only possible downside is we have to trust the reporter to do his/her job, and wait till the next day to see the results.

[CallmePrismatic]

Originally Posted by Newb

I won't remove anybody who is affecting the game unless they ask me to.

Well that settles it, inactives have roles...Unless there's some other definition of "affecting the game", like merely existing.

Since POS actually bothered to reply in the thread I'm going to assume for now that he has some sort of town-role or at least has been checking in on the thread to see what's been going on (and if he does have a town-role, to further help his Night decisions).

Big Mac not having posted probably means he has a role of little significance to him (since he's been posting elsewhere in the forum). Unless he PMs Newb a random name every Night to Investigate (The reporter and Vig's actions both imply that they are following the not-so-subtle nuances of the thread, leaving the PO as the only good role we don't see explicitly), I'm guessing he's a mafiate who figured out that he has no real Night responsibilities/wanted to keep out of the spotlight.

[Bailey]

Just to clarify, I consider having people voting for you to be affecting the game.

[The Wandering God]

Originally Posted by Mesden

Sadly, this was the only real light note in my post. It was sarcasm and you're taking a bit of an overzealous route here.

Yes, I'm am being zealous. Is that not a viable play style? As opposed to just sitting in the background and going, "Oh, I don't know what to do or say."

Not that I don't have any association with you. Working together is well and good, but I follow my own beliefs here, TWG. You know as well as I am that I'm fairly independent in my ideas and thinking. You're not asking the rest of the town, by the way.

Yeah, I totally didn't ask the town on the first day what they thought of my reporter/bodyguard idea. Or what to do about the PO and when they reveal themselves. Or anything really. I certainly haven't given plans.

Ah hell wait I did, making plans that I think we should follow, oh no! And last time I checked, I have no authority to do anything. So I could say, "This is what we are doing", but if noone does it... Well, I hope you get the idea.

You're TELLING the vig what to do. That's not asking the rest of the town. You're SAYING that you're going to get Twiddy killed next. That's not asking the town, though it holds the capacity to do so.

Yes, but I'm not ORDERING the vig to do anything. Maybe in your world, telling=ordering, but in mine, telling=suggesting. And I hope and expect the town to have input. Haven't I asked for yours before? Oh wait, that's right, you don't want to have anything to do with me. I guess you think the rest of the town should do so as well. Thanks Mesden.

We aren't in REAL disagreement, honestly. Just, like you said, two paths to the same destination. I'm not going to emphasize your points because you could be every bit as wrong as I am, but I know it's my fault when I make a mistake. Not someone else's. That's why I make my own points.

If we are both wrong, then who is right? Who else is considered suspect at this point? If you don't believe your right, then why are you doing what you are doing. Yes, there is always the possibility that you (or me, or anyone) could be wrong, but there has to be a cutoff point. That's when you vote.

I'm not so very clever. I'm not the brightest. Hell, I don't consider myself as smart as you, truth be told. What I do know is that I should do what I think is right so I can't blame it on anyone else. I DO need others. Just not as powerfully as you think. My ideas are worthless without others because no one would hear it.

I'm not asking you to be accountable for my actions. I would never ask that of anyone. And if you don't need others why, do you say later in this post "go off on my own."?

There's no other logic I can wholeheartedly believe besides my own. It's just how I am because I can't follow another's lead. I need to have my own belief of someone's scum, not your belief.

So, if someone else thought of it, it might not hold water? That's great, that's really great. Except it kind of failed you when it came to B_real. Just like mine when it came to Ogianres. But when both of us agree on Twiddy and CmP?

Now you're getting a bit harsh towards me. Also, I'll admit I overexaggerated the wholehearted part in the anger I had when making the post. But you did put the hopes of the town on my shoulders for all intents and puposes.

Actually, I'd say you started the harshness. I wasn't kidding with the caustic remark. And how did I put the hopes of the town on your shoulder?

But you did say you would follow my lead. That was enough for me to not accept anything you said and go off on my own.

Well, I guess you got proven wrong then, as you probably got started on that line of thinking because you were suspicious of me. (I remember you saying it was between me and CmP.)

However, I fail to see the problem now. You KNOW that I said that because, as an unknown, I didn't have the ability to speak with the kind of freedom I have now. And I was worried about the mafia targetting me. Now that I'm a known townie, I have to stand on my own and make my time count, as it could end at any nightfall.

Yes, they are a townie. I know this fully. I know the conditions for them winning. That will never change the fact that how they chose to play their role is their choice. Not yours. Remember that.

Yes, it is their choice whether to at least attempt to listen to what others say or not. But the fact of the matter is, what is in our best interests is in theirs and vice versa.

Damn it, TWG. Stop the berating of that. That's like insulting that player. They made a mistake, it happens. That doesn't mean their judgement is automatically horrible.

No, but it does mean they should really think and evalute who (if anyone) they hit next. And seeing what others think is part of that.

Remember when the PO told the vig to kill that mafiate in your game because they had that lynch thing that would get the last two voters killed?

Noone freaked out then about telling the vig what to do.

But you say, "But it was the PO telling them that". While not the PO, you DO agree with me in that Twiddy and CmP are the biggest suspects. We are, for all intents and purposes, the voice of the town right now. And I believe that the vig should follow the voice of the town.

Some people do. IHMN does. What's your argument in that the Vigilante now doens't think the same? There is no argument. You don't know that person unless you are the vig. Which I'll assume you aren't as you're needlessly insulting that person off one, most likely, honest mistake.

I don't know what they think. But if it is a random kill, then we are pretty fucked, as the town has few chances left.

All I'm saying at most is that they aren't particulary good at guessing who is mafiate. That's hardly an insult when you take into account they the one thing we have to go on backs it up.

Maybe not. But who says you and I are? Why should they follow us? There's no guarantee that CmP and Twiddy are mafia.

There is no guarantee of anything. But, to us, they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Silly Kitty at this point. Who do YOU think the vig should hit?

Now don't go getting self righteous on us.

I'm simply pointing out that I was able to discern his alignment.

I told you why I didn't agree with you. I gave reasons and then formed my own opinions. You know why by now. I don't ignore anything. I'm a rather sharp eyed player if I do say so myself.

That doesn't actually prohibit you from thinking I'm stupid ya know. In my experience, if you don't agree with a person's reasoning, it's because you think that person is stupid.

Then stop playing for a bit. Calm down. Go out for a walk. Play a game. Don't put the anger here. I don't ignore what you said. I just don't chose to follow it. So sue me if I feel like trusting my belief more than yours...Wait a second, isn't that what you're doing too? Choosing what you think over what I think? I believe it is.

Well I would, but all those reasons will still be there when I get back. (Unless I die, or a miracle happens, and people actually listen to me.)

And then you go assuming again. I'm expressing my thoughts logically. I've never asked anyone to blindly follow me. Don't say it again.

Being agressive is alright. But don't offend people. It's a game. Winning isn't everything you know. You're being OVER aggresive is what I'm trying to say. And you know you can't be convicted for it because you're a townie. Please, I'm asking you as a fellow player, just to calm down a bit.

When did I offend someone? (Besides you?) Because they certainly didn't bring it up with me. I'm not psychic. I can't tell when I'm stepping on toes. Maybe you could be a bit more specific.

Yup. But, I'll refer you to my last statement.(Not the "Okay" one. )

Being aggresive only hurts the town if I'm being unreasonable. So it's a question of, "Am I being unreasonable?"

What you believe is the best chance is not what other believe is the best chance. And, on the assume things part, you are making statements about how I feel which happen to be untrue and borderlining an insult to me.

It's not just what I think. It's what you think too. (On the subject of Twiddy's and CmP's guilt.) And I'll stop assuming when you start treating me like a human being.

Oh no, you don't accuse us of cheating. We don't discuss anything about the game. We're mature enough to follow the rules. And by we, I mean Myself, SillyKitty and The Wizard Who Did It. We happen to be friends and talk in Chat8Bit on AOL Instant Messenger. It's not a secret club. We DO talk about how your posts affect the person out of game wise, which is something you seem to be missing in what I said.

First, off, cut that "us" shit out. I'm not talking to them, I'm talking to you. If they have something they want to say to me, let them say it.

Second off, I never said cheating. Nor have I said anything to Newb about it either.

Third, drop it. The next time you name drop anyone else like that, I'm quitting.

Fourth, what do Newb and/or the mods have to say?

You've made people feel bad and upset over a game. This is where everyone needs to calm down and take it as a game.

I can't "make" anyone feel anything. People are responsible for their own feelings. (As you said.) If someone IS upset, then I'm right here.

[The Wandering God]

NOTE: Due to space restrictions, (10,000 character long posts only) I had to break this into two posts. Double posting is bad, but I really wanted to get everything across.

Now you ARE insulting me. You just called me a hypocrite and to me, this is an insult of one of the highest calibur.

I'm not telling you how to act. I'm asking you, person to person, to PLEASE just tone it down a wee bit as to not upset others. It's not an order, it's a request as a person.

Again, don't assume things about me and insult me. This is a game and saying these things are unnecessary.

I called you a hypocrite because you just said "tone it down". Kind of like how I just said the vig, "Do this". Now then, who is suggesting what, and who is telling who what?

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.

Let me sum things up from my point of view, and then'll we go from there.

Here's what I think:
The Vig made a mistake. Before they make another, maybe they should listen to people they can trust aren't mafiates. Who is that? Us. I'd say the exact same thing if it were two different people as confirmed townies who happened to agree on who is the most suspicious. This isn't because "I" think so. I'd suggest the vig follow if the confirmed townies happend to be anyone.

As to you, Mesden, I simply think you are a bit too arrogant. You have either stated or implied that my reasoning is flawed. Who's feelings are getting hurt here? Both of us. Don't pretend it's not the case. But don't act like it's entirely my fault either.

So, Mesden, what do you think?

The Wandering God

[Mesden]

TWG, you call me arrogant. I've done nothing but see arrogance in you since your townieness was revealed.

All I've done is state what I believe here and you've done nothing but irritate and insult me. You're being an ass and that's the gist of it. I can't take your attitude towards me one more moment.

I'm quitting. I am the vigilante, mind you, and I was to hit CmP or Twid tonight, whichever wasn't lynched.

You doubted my judgement when it was the same as yours and have done nothing short of upset me in a game. I was in it to have fun and you've stripped away my last chance at this.

Goodbye Mafia.

Edit, I took out my other suspicion. It's pointless for me to say anything I believe.

[Silly Kitty]

Originally Posted by TWG

No, but it does mean they should really think and evalute who (if anyone) they hit next. And seeing what others think is part of that.

Remember when the PO told the vig to kill that mafiate in your game because they had that lynch thing that would get the last two voters killed?

Noone freaked out then about telling the vig what to do.

But you say, "But it was the PO telling them that". While not the PO, you DO agree with me in that Twiddy and CmP are the biggest suspects. We are, for all intents and purposes, the voice of the town right now. And I believe that the vig should follow the voice of the town.

I was the PO in that game. I knew someone was mafia. The vig hit them because he knew that person was mafia. TWG, do you know who is mafia? Do you know for a fact that Twiddy is mafia? Do you have a special role that tells you that like a PO role? No? Then don't compare the two.

Also, in answer to your question about who I think the vig should hit, I don't think it matters who I want the vig to hit. It matters who the vig wants to hit.

Edit: You called Mes stupid and questioned her judgement(her being the vig). Wasn't your judgement the same as hers?