Hatland Mafia - Page 44

Sifright · 11-02-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

I'm not sure if I buy P-Sleazy's roleclaim, it COULD be scum trying to figure out who not to kill. Even worse, if he gets counterclaimed, we have a 50/50 tossup of whether or not we hit the bulletproof, or the scum. Yeah, we've got an identified scum for next round, but I was killed off as the real town bulletproof by a scum strategy like that, in the Homestuck game.

At the same time, Sif is definitely acting differently than before. Before, he was assertive, but now he's assertive and aggressively hostile. Having been on the other side of his aggressiveness before, this time feels definitely different than how he was pursuing me last game.

I'm going to Unvote: P-Sleazy, and think more.

How am I being any different from last game? What on earth guys? Look at how hard I pushed for the lynch on Nikose last game when i was relatively certain of him, how am I doing anything different now when it comes to Geminex? I've explained my reasoning the only thing you can claim i'm doing differently this time is not following people so much and coming to my own conclusions, Mainly because as soon as I started doing that last game (read day 2) I started hitting scum targets.

I refuse to back down from a Gem lynch, regardless of how suspicious you guys think this makes me killing the cult off is the single most important thing we can do as town at this stage. To reiterate one mafia already down! Think about that for a moment, if we can remove another enemy faction from the game we are in a much better situation as town, do you really want to risk the PO or the vigilante being culted, because that is a very real possibility this is why i'm so concerned about Geminex, we already lost one town power role in the death of bard.

Inbred Chocobo · 11-02-2011, 05:18 PM

For people like P-sleazy: Hand-wave away the argument that is what he did last game as town as this game is not last game, then talk about cult a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifright

Could you explain how i'm being any different to day 2 of the last mafia game where I pushed really really hard for a nikose lynch and Again on day 3 of the last mafia game where I pushed REALLY hard for a Nikose lynch.

First, for behavior, I don't really give a shit how you acted in whatever game, as that is not this game, and I will just you by the merits you make in this game and only this game. However you are constantly pushing to using past knowledge from previous games to judge how one person acted and another different. The problem is that is flawed logic as behavior is not an easy thing to control, and surprisingly, can be changed based on a lot of factors outside of the game that change on a daily basis.

Quote:

Also Cult is the single most powerful faction in the game, The mafia are second strongest followed by town. I'll explain.

Presume Cult starts with only one member I think this makes sense for how bookie is running the cult leader with the ability to kill mafia.

Spread of players will be something like this, 21 Total, 5 mafia, 1 SK, 1 Cult 14 townies with some of the having power roles.

Town and mafia both have ever dwindling population contrasted with this if the cult leader isn't killed his faction grows larger every night and even if town are lucky enough to kill off one of the cultist recruits every single day or night with the help of the vig town would still eventually lose. Whilst the cult will remain either stagnant or grow while every other faction will lose players.

Mafia are strong initially due to night faction kill and knowledge of who else is their alignment. Sk is weak permanently has factional night kill but no allies. Town is strong technically but very weak due to lack of information. The reason i'm pushing so hard for the cult is because they really are that strong.

I've no interest in getting people angry, causing a shitstorm will only shutdown conversation and kill the game thread for the day I'm completely 100% utterly opposed to this. I want people talking I want peoples thoughts and frankly I'm slightly aggrieved that you think I'm trying to shut down discussion. If I was truly scum I would be quick hammering sleazy now as the voting situation was very perilous for a short while.

To reiterate I want to hear other peoples view points, Yes i've steered the topic towards gem because I believe my arguments are sound and because I believe the Cult if left to flourish will grow far to powerful, as I suspect one mafia player to be dead and the SK to be gone as well targeting the cult now makes the most sense.

You are right, cult is a threat, but to both town and mafia. Mafia know this, and you have pointed them in a clear direction that they could kill it off. If Gem is truly the cult leader, then I fully expect some night kill role, either vig or town to get them. However, that won't help us because we need our day kill to reveal a role, and killing gem on day will only fulfill whether your suspicions are correct. Lynching someone else however will reveal a lot more information, based off of their arguments and those that argued against you. You have, whether intentional or not, been pestering and pushing people into acting, or hussling them, and it has happened so much that I don't believe that your intentions for it are just to keep the town active, but to make the town do stupid things, so my vote remains with you.

Geminex · 11-02-2011, 05:23 PM

Sifright, gah. I was making some suggestions regarding the night post. One of them was mistaken. I aknowleged that mistake pretty quickly. Sure, if I were cult, that mistake could have been intentional. But it could just as well have been a simple misassumption, from a townie, or a mafiate, or the SK. You yourself said that the assumption I made in regards to moogle was the obvious one. How, in that context, can you still claim that the mistake is one an inexperienced townie can't make? I mean, yes, you have the meta-game argument, but for all my eloquence, this is my second game of mafia ever. I honestly didn't consider that angle, and while the connection between the trilby and the suicidal role wasn't immediately apparent, I thought I was on the right track. When it was pointed out to me that this wasn't the case, by you, no less, I changed my mind. You're trying to hang me on a detail.

And while I get that you're desperate to find the cult leader, and yes, maybe I'm your best bet right now, that doesn't justify lynching me because I said something that the cult leader might say. That isn't justification for a lynch. That's just desperation.

Rav made some good points, though:
First, I hadn't considered that Sleazy was already at 7 out of 9 votes. That explains the 'jumping the gun' aspect.

Quote:

I don't agree, being low profile, but not quite inactive is a method used by scum and power roles alike, to prevent suspicion on them. As such, in order to confuse mafia into thinking you might be a power role, and as such a good target for elimination, is an alternative way for bulletproof play, in my opinion. This isn't to say that high profile wouldn't be an option either, just saying that it isn't the only one, as I see it.

This is honestly not a bad point, he could have been trying to hang back in order to attract the mafia to him... But I dunno. It's not that he didn't post at all. From what I can tell, he tried to keep up a semblance of activity, but didn't actually put any content in his posts. To me, that says scum more than anything.

I mean, ultimately, it's WIFOM. He can't know what the mafia would expect from a power role. His best bet would've been to at least try to help town with the stuff he posted. Try to analyze stuff, make logical arguments, maybe even try to flush out a few mafiates. That kind of thing threatens scum. He kinda did the opposite of that. I mean, I'm not sure either, but we've got two days left, and there's probably no more threat of a majority vote. So I'll stay here.

Sifright · 11-02-2011, 05:26 PM

Right, okay I'm trying to make the town do stupid things. What stupid things am I pushing town towards out of interest, because this is something I'm not seeing and your reasoning has been mostly nebulous. You are right that Gem can be night killed and in my worry about us going for a lynch with out discussion I forgot about that, leaving him to the Vigilante does make some sense, but I think my worries are legitimate.

I'm not happy with how you are characterizing my actions either, because apart from this situation with Geminex where have i been hustling town? When I tried to get a lynch on aldurin for his role claim which every one has agreed with me about it being suspicious? When I tried to stop a lynch on snake when he said he was leaving the game? Lets be honest that wasn't snake just saying he was leaving the game that was a leaving the forum post so lynching snake after that is just ridiculous.

[b]FOS:Inbred chocobo[/]

Your reasoning through of my actions is faulty and you are mis-characterizing both what I've said and my actions.

rpgdemon · 11-02-2011, 05:27 PM

Well, Sif, you're deadset on him, but your reasoning this time is much more emotional, and less reasoned than before. You're trying to appeal to people's fear and emotions, instead of convincing them.

rpgdemon · 11-02-2011, 05:31 PM

Like, when you were accusing me before, you were making points, trying to make chains of logic, and then get into what my motives were, constantly. You didn't make the posts once with the logic, then give up. This time, you're doing just that, which is what is suspicious to me. You logicked once, and are now just going off of emotion.

If you respond with, "Well, I don't have any real more logic to say!", then perhaps you ought to reconsider being so deadset on hitting Gem. I have no idea what he might be, but I would rather be suspicious of the one who is trying to emotion a lynch on him, than the person I have no reason to or not to suspect.

Sifright · 11-02-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

Well, Sif, you're deadset on him, but your reasoning this time is much more emotional, and less reasoned than before. You're trying to appeal to people's fear and emotions, instead of convincing them.

No I started out, with actual observation and analysis of his posts and why I believed what I did, i've slowly moved over to emotive argument to attempt to drum up some damn thoughts on the matter and to get people to look at geminex more in depth. At this stage I don't think I can convince any one, I'm not an eloquent poster, I'm no demagogue. If you guys really think I'm wrong i'll shut up, not because I agree with you but because me harping is not going to help town further. One thing I will not regret though is trying to stop a quick lynch on Sleazy. Given his bullet proof roleclaim and the lack of any counter claim at the moment I'm damn glad I tried to keep gem the focus of the conversation because he came very close to being lynched.

Sifright · 11-02-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

Like, when you were accusing me before, you were making points, trying to make chains of logic, and then get into what my motives were, constantly. You didn't make the posts once with the logic, then give up. This time, you're doing just that, which is what is suspicious to me. You logicked once, and are now just going off of emotion.

If you respond with, "Well, I don't have any real more logic to say!", then perhaps you ought to reconsider being so deadset on hitting Gem. I have no idea what he might be, but I would rather be suspicious of the one who is trying to emotion a lynch on him, than the person I have no reason to or not to suspect.

Consider me shut up then, because I've explained my rational enough times you are right I have nothing more to bring to the table. I must be utterly wrong.

Sifright · 11-02-2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

I'm not sure if I buy P-Sleazy's roleclaim, it COULD be scum trying to figure out who not to kill. Even worse, if he gets counterclaimed, we have a 50/50 tossup of whether or not we hit the bulletproof, or the scum. Yeah, we've got an identified scum for next round, but I was killed off as the real town bulletproof by a scum strategy like that, in the Homestuck game.

At the same time, Sif is definitely acting differently than before. Before, he was assertive, but now he's assertive and aggressively hostile. Having been on the other side of his aggressiveness before, this time feels definitely different than how he was pursuing me last game.

I'm going to Unvote: P-Sleazy, and think more.

Format your unvote correctly you are still voting for him currently.

rpgdemon · 11-02-2011, 05:53 PM

##Unvote: P-Sleazy

Stupid format changes between games.

11-02-2011, 05:27 PM	#435
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	Well, Sif, you're deadset on him, but your reasoning this time is much more emotional, and less reasoned than before. You're trying to appeal to people's fear and emotions, instead of convincing them. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

11-02-2011, 05:31 PM	#436
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	Like, when you were accusing me before, you were making points, trying to make chains of logic, and then get into what my motives were, constantly. You didn't make the posts once with the logic, then give up. This time, you're doing just that, which is what is suspicious to me. You logicked once, and are now just going off of emotion. If you respond with, "Well, I don't have any real more logic to say!", then perhaps you ought to reconsider being so deadset on hitting Gem. I have no idea what he might be, but I would rather be suspicious of the one who is trying to emotion a lynch on him, than the person I have no reason to or not to suspect. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

11-02-2011, 05:53 PM	#440
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	##Unvote: P-Sleazy Stupid format changes between games. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

11-02-2011, 05:26 PM	#434
Sifright Fact sphere is the most handsome Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,108	Right, okay I'm trying to make the town do stupid things. What stupid things am I pushing town towards out of interest, because this is something I'm not seeing and your reasoning has been mostly nebulous. You are right that Gem can be night killed and in my worry about us going for a lynch with out discussion I forgot about that, leaving him to the Vigilante does make some sense, but I think my worries are legitimate. I'm not happy with how you are characterizing my actions either, because apart from this situation with Geminex where have i been hustling town? When I tried to get a lynch on aldurin for his role claim which every one has agreed with me about it being suspicious? When I tried to stop a lynch on snake when he said he was leaving the game? Lets be honest that wasn't snake just saying he was leaving the game that was a leaving the forum post so lynching snake after that is just ridiculous. [b]FOS:Inbred chocobo[/] Your reasoning through of my actions is faulty and you are mis-characterizing both what I've said and my actions.