Hatland Mafia

[P-Sleazy]

wait, its entered your mind that I'm an important town role? Also you believe sif is more suspicious yet you vote me cause I'm closer to death?

[rpgdemon]

The whole, "You defended X argument, must be aligned with X" thing actually strikes me as a particularly bad idea.

If people have poor logic, and you don't think that the logic is sound, then it's good for the town NOT to follow through with the course of action that has flaws in it. Even if it saves a scum on one day, it makes sure that the town only votes for legitimate targets, which will hurt the scum and help the town in the long run.

By saying that making a defense for someone is suspicious, Sif, you're saying, "Let faulty logic be okay, don't try to think for yourself, follow the herd", which is absolutely abhorrent to be telling the town.

First let's look at his couple of line, he tries to paint moogles death as part of his role and congratulates him on his success in avoiding suspicion day 1. This flagged Gem up for me pretty quickly. One we don't have any information on Moogles actual role and two his attempt to paint Moogles role as a suicide one doesn't make much sense on the face of it. Moving more odd hedging and floundering about whether he is alive or not. Personally I think this part of his post amounts to jokey fluff not much in the way of a tell but being day 2 any jokey posts are little suspicious as things are much more serious now. The end of his post calling Moogle suicidal again as if it were part of his role.

The one thing that I find suspicious here is that he's saying that Moogle had to avoid suspicion. THAT strikes me as having known something about Moogle's role that wasn't suicidal, and accidentally letting it slip. Saying that Moogle was probably a suicide role really isn't suspicious, since he's linking the role right out of the wiki, saying, "I think this is what he had."

The fact that he says that Moogle had to avoid suspicion though, I missed. I was blinded by the fact that you were calling him out on trying to conjecture what Moogle's role was, and get answers. That he says Moogle had to avoid suspicion makes me think he was trying to pad his post with some details about, "Oh, Moogle's suicidal, so this means X", where he forgets that X isn't actually a well known fact. I almost did that last game as SK, when I was going to say something like, "And we know that the SK is going to hit X", when I was the only one who actually knew that.

I still think that you are scum too, though. I'm guessing that you're mafia, and Gem is cult, or vice versa. You could have elaborated on your theories, rather than just going, "I don't wanna talk about it! I must be wrong because I was questioned!", and brought attention to the important fact of Gem knowing something he absolutely should not have knowledge of, if he were a vanilla townie.

My suspects:
-Gem
-Sif
-Smarty
-P-Sleazy (Lack of a counterclaim means nothing, I just didn't want him to hit the vote cap without proper discussion)
-Aldurin

I don't think that anyone who defends someone on that list deserves to go straight onto it though, since if I'm wrong, I'd like to know that, and not have someone go, "I can't defend them, since then I get put on the list!".

Given Gem's outside knowledge though, he's definitely the one with the biggest "real" lead. Since I can't think of a valid reason to know, I'm going to:

##Vote: Geminex

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Apologies to Sif but a full response to your post will have to wait until I'm out of class.
Nonetheless, I see your point as well... it just would be easier to believe if I weren't thinking that you're also some manner of Scum roll, acting in defense of your fellow.

Originally Posted by P-Sleazy

wait, its entered your mind that I'm an important town role? Also you believe sif is more suspicious yet you vote me cause I'm closer to death?

Pretty much, yes.
I've considered the possibility that you're an important town role, but I find it unlikely at best. Your roleclaim doesn't really do much to change that.
And, yes. If I'm given the choice between pointlessly voting Sif and killing you when I think both are reasonably good choices, I will vote for you.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Sifright

Aldurin is some one I firmly believe to be scum, PO has investigated him.

Incidentally, I don't think that relying on the PO to come out and tell us that Aldurin is scum is a good idea. We're all pretty sure that he is, and the PO could be killed off without our knowledge in the night. On top of that, we're not even sure the break in IS the PO, yet. It could have been a watcher type role, where they would have seen any night actions taken by/with Aldurin. If he didn't do anything at night (Had no nightkill, but was still scum), we'd have nothing on him.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

We're all pretty sure that he is, and the PO could be killed off without our knowledge in the night.

Except for me and anyone the fuck else that doesn't think he's scum.
I'm guessing you didn't really mean to do so, but don't speak like that. You don't represent the town or the opinions of all within the town.

[Geminex]

The fact that he says that Moogle had to avoid suspicion though, I missed. I was blinded by the fact that you were calling him out on trying to conjecture what Moogle's role was, and get answers. That he says Moogle had to avoid suspicion makes me think he was trying to pad his post with some details about, "Oh, Moogle's suicidal, so this means X", where he forgets that X isn't actually a well known fact. I almost did that last game as SK, when I was going to say something like, "And we know that the SK is going to hit X", when I was the only one who actually knew that.

That was just deduction. The only thing a town-aligned suicidal role can do to 'help' town is avoid getting lynched (so the town doesn't waste a lynch) and try to maybe attract a nightkill. Hence, for moogle to be 'useful' to us, if he was suicidal, he would have to avoid getting lynched. He avoided all major suspicision. So, if he was suicidal, he would have done his job.

There was no outside knowlege here, plain logic.

What kind of role do you think I'd have, that I would have background knowlege about moogle's suicidal tendencies? Like, can you construct some sort of plausible scenario here?

[Sifright]

Rpgdemon, I will not preempt the PO, If he has information that Aldurin is not infact scum and we go ahead and lynch the fuck out of him and he turns out not to be scum we will effectively kill the value the PO has. My only worry is that the PO is already dead. If Bard was the PO we will find out tonight when there are no break ins.

Voting for Geminex is actually a bad idea, as town doesn't need to kill the cult now that the information about Gem is out there. Mafia or the vigilante will hopefully target him for a night kill. It's senseless to waste a lynch on him given that postulate when we can lynch a different player and learn about mafia/town interactions.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Geminex

That was just deduction. The only thing a town-aligned suicidal role can do to 'help' town is avoid getting lynched (so the town doesn't waste a lynch) and try to maybe attract a nightkill. Hence, for moogle to be 'useful' to us, if he was suicidal, he would have to avoid getting lynched. He avoided all major suspicision. So, if he was suicidal, he would have done his job.

There was no outside knowlege here, plain logic.

What kind of role do you think I'd have, that I would have background knowlege about moogle's suicidal tendencies? Like, can you construct some sort of plausible scenario here?

Hehehe, this is so bad I can't quite believe I am reading it. given that day 1 it would have been BETTER for town if he had been lynched if that was his actual role taking your post at face value it doesn't even work. Your excuse for your reasoning and posting gets worse.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Sifright

Hehehe, this is so bad I can't quite believe I am reading it. given that day 1 it would have been BETTER for town if he had been lynched if that was his actual role taking your post at face value it doesn't even work. Your excuse for your reasoning and posting gets worse.

Day 1 we have potential to kill a Scum just as any other day.
If moogle's going to die anyway, then yeah, killing him would be a waste of the lynch.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Day 1 we have potential to kill a Scum just as any other day.
If moogle's going to die anyway, then yeah, killing him would be a waste of the lynch.

Yeah, a day one lynch on the suicidal is literally the exact same as a no vote. Why would that be a favorable solution?