We will now discuss Naruto is a spoilery manner.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

It takes some serious power to punch someone and make the water under them react like a semisolid.

Probably why Kisame was unconscious in the next scene. But yeah, awesome chapter was awesome.

[Julford Hajime]

punching the air so hard it bursts into flames and firing a massive exploding tiger

[Funka Genocide]

I mean they're obviously working with what works here. Pure-hearted protagonist with the power of a walking sun. I mean, we all knew Naruto was the second coming of whoever the fuck from day one right? What I've always appreciated about the series is how he gets there, not so much all the "arduous training" stuff but the emotional aspects, the friends and revelations and whatnot.

I mean come on, Naruto is pretty much the best, most lovable ninja ever.

When he bitch slaps Sasuke so hard he creates a time paradox sending emo-mckilledmybrother back in time to realize how awesome he's not I will be a happy camper.

Also, Might Guy does not care if you're some kind of weird fish man thing, he will punch your shit the fuck out and then relate a wholesome parable of justice to the next generation whilst smiling into the setting sun on a beach filled with the honest passion of youth fuck god damn shit flaming tigers.

[Lithp]

There are a couple things you have to remember:

Trust me, I haven't forgot.

1) Guy does muscle training that would kill even Rock Lee. His naturally available strength is already stupidly large.

It was said, way back in the beginning, that "no matter how hard you train, you can't strengthen your internal organs." The implication being that physical limits were still limits, training notwithstanding. That was just thrown right out the window.

PS Thread should be titled "Naruto, better comic than Bleach"

In Bizarro World.

It takes some serious power to punch someone and make the water under them react like a semisolid.

When did this happen?

[Donomni]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

PS Thread should be titled "Naruto, better comic than Bleach"

Could some mod get all uppin's on that?

I totally would, but the last time I tried that the title was all "Fuuuuuck YOOOOOUUUU" and so forth.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Lithp

In Bizarro World.

I admire your commitment to your wrong viewpoint!

[Sithdarth]

It was said, way back in the beginning, that "no matter how hard you train, you can't strengthen your internal organs." The implication being that physical limits were still limits, training notwithstanding. That was just thrown right out the window.

Since when are chakra gates internal organs? Aside from that if the chakra gates were some form of biological system they'd be more like muscles and which are easily strengthened through training. Even ones like your heart. Further, what does Guy's training increase muscle strength and thereby latent muscle strength have to do with internal organs anyway. Latent muscle potential is a percentage of normally applicable muscle strength. If you only have normally applicable muscle strength equal to 100 lbs of force and your latent potential is say 300% of that then with that all released that is 100 lbs + 300 lbs or 400 lbs. If instead you trained that muscle to have 200 lbs of normally applicable muscle strength your full released normal plus potential strength would be 800 lbs. The percentage change is the same but the overall magnitude is much greater. The more strength you start with the more potential strength you have to work with. So if we assume that the gates at least in part release latent muscle strength increasing your muscle strength through training is a very good way to make releasing the gates much more effective. If opening the gates makes a normal person superhuman than it'll do unbelievable things to someone that is already superhuman. Putting it another way if opening all the gates gives a relatively normal ninja power greater than a Kage then imagine what it would do to someone that already has the power of a Kage.

Further the passage you are referring two says a couple of other things. The first is that it separates the chakra system from the organs. It says they are closely related but clearly treats them as separate things. The second is that it says you can't harden them against straight up damage. That doesn't mean you can't harden them against the effects of your own chakra which is in general not intended to do damage. Such training is going to be useless against the gentle fist since that chakra is essentially concentrated damage and fundamentally different than normal chakra.

On top of that in general even if you couldn't harden yourself against your own chakra (which you must be able to do otherwise Naruto would still have chakra burns on his hands from some of this techniques and no one's chakra control would ever increase) that wouldn't limit you from increasing your potential unused chakra. It would just make using the Inner Gates more and more dangerous as your strength increased causing more and more damage to your body.

When did this happen?

Page 6. It might just be a case of the artist not fully understanding the physics of the situation though. Generally speaking if you put pressure on someone floating on water they both fold up and sink at the same time. Judging from how it was drawn the folding up happened but instead of sinking into the water it was simply pushed away like when you create a splash by diving. This effect happens because water is largely incompressible and when you hit it that hard for a second it behaves in some ways like a solid.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Lithp

Trust me, I haven't forgot.


It was said, way back in the beginning, that "no matter how hard you train, you can't strengthen your internal organs." The implication being that physical limits were still limits, training notwithstanding. That was just thrown right out the window.

Except that the hidden lotus can damage the muscles not the internal organs, second this is a fictional comic. That argument doesn't hold, other wise you might as well ask how can a ninja walk on water or how can you run at speeds past 20 miles per hour, or how can anyone do most of the stuff seen in this comic.

Plus Might Guy has already been mentioned to be beyond normal in terms of physical abilities.

NEVER try to bring logic into a fantasy comic. It is by far the stupidest thing you could EVER do in a discussion about said fantasy comic.

[Lithp]

That argument doesn't hold, other wise you might as well ask how can a ninja walk on water.

They use chakra to cause the molecules to act more like a solid.

NEVER try to bring logic into a fantasy comic. It is by far the stupidest thing you could EVER do in a discussion about said fantasy comic.

No, THIS is the dumbest thing you could say in a discussion about a fantasy comic. Every genre has rules, as was demonstrated above. If there was absolutely 0 logic in a story, it would be impossible to follow. Not difficult, straight up impossible. Because at any given moment anything could happen with no justification whatsoever. Itachi could simply appear in a sealed room at random with no explanation ever given for how he got there, let alone came back to life.

Even something as batshit insane as FLCL has an inherent structure that you can follow. Things come out of Naota's head because he's transporting them with his N.O. He can do this because it was opened by Haruko when she hit his head, & she in turn can do that because she is an alien, & therefore has abilities & knowledge that normal humans do not. The REASON she did that was because she wanted to use him in a bid to obtain the power of Atomos, some badass space phoenix with N.O. that can steal entire solar systems.

FLCL, by the way, is a story that focuses on random humor & the entire premise is things appearing out of some kid's head. But, as ridiculous as it sounds, there MUST be some logic in the story for the sequence of events to make sense. I really rather doubt that you could even begin to understand a plotline that had absolutely no causality whatsoever.

In short, fantasy stories have in-universe rules, & when those rules are broken, it strains the audience's suspension of disbelief.

Since when are chakra gates internal organs?

That is not what I said. What I said was, "Physical limits cannot be bypassed just from training." The 8 Inner Gates just release muscles to their fullest potential. Muscles can't do that kind of shit, period.

Generally speaking if you put pressure on someone floating on water they both fold up and sink at the same time. Judging from how it was drawn the folding up happened but instead of sinking into the water it was simply pushed away like when you create a splash by diving. This effect happens because water is largely incompressible and when you hit it that hard for a second it behaves in some ways like a solid.

I'm still not understanding what you're getting at.

[Sithdarth]

Reread what you said here:

That is not what I said. What I said was, "Physical limits cannot be bypassed just from training." The 8 Inner Gates just release muscles to their fullest potential. Muscles can't do that kind of shit, period.

Then reread what you said here:

Every genre has rules, as was demonstrated above.

here:

Even something as batshit insane as FLCL has an inherent structure that you can follow. Things come out of Naota's head because he's transporting them with his N.O. He can do this because it was opened by Haruko when she hit his head, & she in turn can do that because she is an alien, & therefore has abilities & knowledge that normal humans do not.

here:

They use chakra to cause the molecules to act more like a solid.

and here:

In short, fantasy stories have in-universe rules,

Now stop and think to yourself what does this all mean put together. You might also want to consider if there exists a chakra system that doesn't exist in our world what other biological changes could exists. You might also consider that chakra can directly interact with muscles making them stronger. In Naruto muscle strength both does not follow normal human restrictions nor does it depend solely on physical muscle fiber like in our reality.

Oh and you could also compare this:

That is not what I said. What I said was, "Physical limits cannot be bypassed just from training."

With this:

It was said, way back in the beginning, that "no matter how hard you train, you can't strengthen your internal organs."

Which does absolutely nothing to support that point which is explains why I was confused.

This specifically:

The implication being that physical limits were still limits, training notwithstanding. That was just thrown right out the window.

Is constantly contradicted. Rock Lee is running around at super human speed with absolutely no direct chakra help on pure muscle with what seemed to be hundreds of pounds on his legs. Clearly realistic limits on physical strength do not exist. Guy being another prime example with his miles upon miles of hand walking and other physical exercises.

On top of all that what isn't explicitly clear about the fact that the gates specifically allow you to ignore your physical limits whatever they might be. Generally speaking in any fantasy genre abilities that specifically state you can ignore a rule trump that rule. As the saying goes there is an exception to every rule.

Of course beyond all that the Gates are supposedly doing a lot more to your body then just unlocking muscle strength. Everything from increasing your digestive ability to eliminating all your waste.

when those rules are broken, it strains the audience's suspension of disbelief.

None of Naruto's internal logic was broken. Mostly what was broken was your notion of what muscles should be really capable of which is absurd since that was long ago surpassed.

I'm still not understanding what you're getting at.

When you press on a liquid it usually moves out of the way and allows you to sink with very little resistance i.e. liquids can not support weight unless there is no where for it to go. When you create a splash and don't sink it is because the liquid supported your weight. Essentially for a time period the liquid behaved as a solid. If you hit any liquid so hard that it can't get out of the way in time it will behave very similarly to a non-Newtonian fluid. That is why belly flops hurt and skydiving from a plane a mile up into water without a parachute is still deadly. Guy hit him so hard the water somewhat supported his weight thus the semisolid comment.