Atlas Shrugged: The Movie - Page 5

Osterbaum · 04-05-2011, 01:51 PM

The way I understand; Nietzche's work was often misinterpreted partly because of errors in translation of his work in to english.

That's just what I recall though, I haven't really read anything of Nietzche's work.

Professor Smarmiarty · 04-05-2011, 01:58 PM

I'm pretty sure the Nazis could read German.

Osterbaum · 04-05-2011, 02:03 PM

Yeah, I didn't mean to say that they missunderstood his work through translation.

Professor Smarmiarty · 04-05-2011, 02:03 PM

It was pretty hilarious to interpret it that way though.

The Kneumatic Pnight · 04-05-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

Nazism was a poor understanding of Nietzche

Well, not really, in that Naziism has very distinct notions of right and wrong, good and evil, and justice and injustice, whereas the essence of Nietzsche is that none of those terms are of any meaning whatsoever.

Further that Naziism intrinsically promotes the value of the state-culture organism to which residents of the state and members of the culture owe their identity and lifestyle, whereas Nietzsche would only attribute to states and cultures the shackling of the human potential.

I mean, yes, Hitler was influenced to a degree by Nietzsche, but thinkers who were more influenced by him, in order of least to most, include Mussolini, Theodore Roosevelt, and the modern zionist movement.

The most probable reason people associate Nietzsche with Naziism, besides the comfortable connection of his status at the time as a famous German philosopher, was Bertrand Russel attributing Naziism to him.

Professor Smarmiarty · 04-05-2011, 02:08 PM

Nazi philosophising, in particular their social science work, made frequent references to Nietzsche and HItler particularly enjoyed it (though we're not sure Hitler even read his works- depending on who you read Hitler either read everything or nothing at all). The fact that their reading of Nietzsche was completely inaccurate doesn't change that fact.
The science/philosophy department also didn't have as much of an influence on their policy/heads of government as it would appear on the surface.

The Kneumatic Pnight · 04-05-2011, 02:12 PM

The point that I was going to and completely failed to make was that the Nazis appropriated the out-of-context words and phrases of basically every famous German philosopher. Their treatment of Nietzsche was neither unique extreme, he simply happened to be the most famous one.

Edit: The hilarious part being that Nietzsche eventually made up a Polish ancestry because he wanted nothing to do with the rising tide of German Nationalism during his lifetime.

Edit II: It's just, it's very easy to attribute all kinds of things to being the progenitor of the Nazis, but it's just that in their lust for legitimacy and history (see also: the Historical School) they basically became the grave-robbers of the philosophies.

Professor Smarmiarty · 04-05-2011, 02:14 PM

Well that is very true. They didn't stop at philosophers either- scientists and mathmaticians and basically everybody was fair game as well. And I completely agree that their useage of Nietzsche is completely not at all Neitzsche, not even like a high schoolers understanding of Nietzsche.

Archbio · 04-05-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the Nazis could read German.

But they couldn't read neurosyphilis.

-or-

They only had the one worn copy of Zarathutstra in english to share between themselves.

The Kneumatic Pnight · 04-05-2011, 02:17 PM

Basically, when your philosophy is the triumph of the german race (such as it is), you go back as far as you can and start trying to show why every German was right all of the time, even in the parts where they disagreed with other Germans. (And pretended to be Polish noblemen who hated nationalism and antisemitism while being nationalist and antisemitic and riddled with syphilis.)

04-05-2011, 01:51 PM	#41
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	The way I understand; Nietzche's work was often misinterpreted partly because of errors in translation of his work in to english. That's just what I recall though, I haven't really read anything of Nietzche's work. __________________ D is for Dirty Commie!

04-05-2011, 02:03 PM	#43
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	Yeah, I didn't mean to say that they missunderstood his work through translation. __________________ D is for Dirty Commie!

04-05-2011, 02:08 PM	#46
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Nazi philosophising, in particular their social science work, made frequent references to Nietzsche and HItler particularly enjoyed it (though we're not sure Hitler even read his works- depending on who you read Hitler either read everything or nothing at all). The fact that their reading of Nietzsche was completely inaccurate doesn't change that fact. The science/philosophy department also didn't have as much of an influence on their policy/heads of government as it would appear on the surface. Last edited by Professor Smarmiarty; 04-05-2011 at 02:11 PM.

04-05-2011, 02:12 PM	#47
The Kneumatic Pnight Everfree Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Mythical Frontier Posts: 906	The point that I was going to and completely failed to make was that the Nazis appropriated the out-of-context words and phrases of basically every famous German philosopher. Their treatment of Nietzsche was neither unique extreme, he simply happened to be the most famous one. Edit: The hilarious part being that Nietzsche eventually made up a Polish ancestry because he wanted nothing to do with the rising tide of German Nationalism during his lifetime. Edit II: It's just, it's very easy to attribute all kinds of things to being the progenitor of the Nazis, but it's just that in their lust for legitimacy and history (see also: the Historical School) they basically became the grave-robbers of the philosophies. __________________ FAILURE IS LEARNING TO ACCEPT THOSE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE Last edited by The Kneumatic Pnight; 04-05-2011 at 02:15 PM.

04-05-2011, 02:17 PM	#50
The Kneumatic Pnight Everfree Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Mythical Frontier Posts: 906	Basically, when your philosophy is the triumph of the german race (such as it is), you go back as far as you can and start trying to show why every German was right all of the time, even in the parts where they disagreed with other Germans. (And pretended to be Polish noblemen who hated nationalism and antisemitism while being nationalist and antisemitic and riddled with syphilis.) __________________ FAILURE IS LEARNING TO ACCEPT THOSE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE

04-05-2011, 01:58 PM	#42
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I'm pretty sure the Nazis could read German.

04-05-2011, 02:14 PM	#48
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Well that is very true. They didn't stop at philosophers either- scientists and mathmaticians and basically everybody was fair game as well. And I completely agree that their useage of Nietzsche is completely not at all Neitzsche, not even like a high schoolers understanding of Nietzsche.