"Phase Four: Successful" aka the "Thor" thread - Page 5

Magus · 05-11-2011, 06:52 PM

Captain America will be fine, I'm sure. It's hard to screw up Nazi-punching.

The Sevenshot Kid · 05-11-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

Captain America will be fine, I'm sure. It's hard to screw up Nazi-punching.

But they made Hydra the villain organization!

Magus · 05-11-2011, 08:12 PM

Nazi Germany was a front for Hydra or something, wasn't it? That seems like a fairly common comic trope so I'll just assume it was true. Basically if Red Skull is all like "I will aid Hitler in exchange for access to this ancient Thulian artifact" and uses Nazi henchmen then it's basically Nazi-punching.

Kerensky287 · 05-11-2011, 08:51 PM

I just saw this movie tonight. I feel that they did as good a job as they could possibly have done with the source material.

By which I mean it was kind of crappy, but what do you expect when you have a cast too big to properly characterize and the main plot separates Thor from his powers until the conclusion of the central conflict?

You get a powerfully compelling protagonist who has dick all in the way of action scenes until the very end. And nobody is interesting except Thor, Heimdall and to some extent Loki.

Loki I'm not so sure about. He's a highly-intelligent God of Trickery, so it really depends on how much of that he planned out. If you interpret his actions as "one step ahead", then he becomes an engaging villain - notice that every time something happens that he couldn't have predicted, he STILL manages to turn the situation as much to his advantage as possible. The sad thing is that there's room for doubt, so maybe when he fell into the black hole at the end it really WAS a depressed suicide attempt? I mean, it looked to me like he garnered as much sympathy as possible from his family before throwing himself into a situation he explicitly stated that he knew how to escape from, while appearing to be killed for all intents and purposes. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Still, let's look at what he managed to do:
-Form a plot to get his brother exiled, placing him as the heir, at the expense of starting a war he knew the Asgardians would win against a group he didn't care about. Succeeded.
-When Thor landed on Earth, Loki found him and tried to convince him that Odin was dead. Succeeded. Then managed to paint himself as the helpless good guy. Also succeeded.
-Ordered Heimdall to shut down Bifrost. Froze him when he proved to be disloyal. Would have succeeded in trapping Thor on Earth except that Heimdall is a total baller.
-Struck a deal with the Frost Giants, using their previous incursion as leverage, to put them in a position where he could kill their king just in time to save Odin, making Loki AGAIN look like the good guy. Succeeded, except that Thor showed up having learned of the previous trickery.
-Tried to gain face with Thor by destroying Jhotunheim, proving that Loki had no alliegance with the Frost Giants, eliminating a potential threat, and proving Loki's competence to any who might have objected to his reign. Would have worked if Thor hadn't matured while on Earth.
-After Thor destroyed Bifrost, they both fell toward a dimensional rift, which Loki couldn't have predicted. Odin woke up, saving them, which Loki ALSO couldn't have predicted. Loki let himself fall in what looked like a self-sacrificing maneouvre designed to let his brother live; instead, he fell into another realm (keeping in mind that he earlier told Heimdall that he knew of other ways to move between realms) as his family watched, letting them think he was dead so he could move on unimpeded.

The only shaky bit there is when Loki attacked Jhotunheim with Bifrost, but he might ACTUALLY have had a bit of the internal conflict he claimed to have, too. I figured he tried doing it just to prove he could.

05-11-2011, 06:52 PM	#41
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Captain America will be fine, I'm sure. It's hard to screw up Nazi-punching. __________________ The Valiant Review

05-11-2011, 08:12 PM	#43
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Nazi Germany was a front for Hydra or something, wasn't it? That seems like a fairly common comic trope so I'll just assume it was true. Basically if Red Skull is all like "I will aid Hitler in exchange for access to this ancient Thulian artifact" and uses Nazi henchmen then it's basically Nazi-punching. __________________ The Valiant Review

05-11-2011, 08:51 PM	#44
Kerensky287 Just That Good Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,426	I just saw this movie tonight. I feel that they did as good a job as they could possibly have done with the source material. By which I mean it was kind of crappy, but what do you expect when you have a cast too big to properly characterize and the main plot separates Thor from his powers until the conclusion of the central conflict? You get a powerfully compelling protagonist who has dick all in the way of action scenes until the very end. And nobody is interesting except Thor, Heimdall and to some extent Loki. Loki I'm not so sure about. He's a highly-intelligent God of Trickery, so it really depends on how much of that he planned out. If you interpret his actions as "one step ahead", then he becomes an engaging villain - notice that every time something happens that he couldn't have predicted, he STILL manages to turn the situation as much to his advantage as possible. The sad thing is that there's room for doubt, so maybe when he fell into the black hole at the end it really WAS a depressed suicide attempt? I mean, it looked to me like he garnered as much sympathy as possible from his family before throwing himself into a situation he explicitly stated that he knew how to escape from, while appearing to be killed for all intents and purposes. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Still, let's look at what he managed to do: -Form a plot to get his brother exiled, placing him as the heir, at the expense of starting a war he knew the Asgardians would win against a group he didn't care about. Succeeded. -When Thor landed on Earth, Loki found him and tried to convince him that Odin was dead. Succeeded. Then managed to paint himself as the helpless good guy. Also succeeded. -Ordered Heimdall to shut down Bifrost. Froze him when he proved to be disloyal. Would have succeeded in trapping Thor on Earth except that Heimdall is a total baller. -Struck a deal with the Frost Giants, using their previous incursion as leverage, to put them in a position where he could kill their king just in time to save Odin, making Loki AGAIN look like the good guy. Succeeded, except that Thor showed up having learned of the previous trickery. -Tried to gain face with Thor by destroying Jhotunheim, proving that Loki had no alliegance with the Frost Giants, eliminating a potential threat, and proving Loki's competence to any who might have objected to his reign. Would have worked if Thor hadn't matured while on Earth. -After Thor destroyed Bifrost, they both fell toward a dimensional rift, which Loki couldn't have predicted. Odin woke up, saving them, which Loki ALSO couldn't have predicted. Loki let himself fall in what looked like a self-sacrificing maneouvre designed to let his brother live; instead, he fell into another realm (keeping in mind that he earlier told Heimdall that he knew of other ways to move between realms) as his family watched, letting them think he was dead so he could move on unimpeded. The only shaky bit there is when Loki attacked Jhotunheim with Bifrost, but he might ACTUALLY have had a bit of the internal conflict he claimed to have, too. I figured he tried doing it just to prove he could.