Snake Watches Re:Zero, Because He Too Wants to Die and Escape Reality

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Gregness

I'll watch it with ya, but do keep notes so this thread doesn't just wither.

Nah, this is a one-time only deal. (Though I may repeat something like this for an episode like the finale. So, a two-time only deal?)

Assuming I continue to watch Re:Zero, future episodes will just continue with the old-fashioned notes in this thread.
(I am definitely leaving myself an out to ditch this series if I have to, there's absolutely a couple things that could happen that would be irredeemable for me.)

I might copy-paste Discord chat comments to here for 15.

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

Assuming I continue to watch Re:Zero, future episodes will just continue with the old-fashioned notes in this thread.
(I am definitely leaving myself an out to ditch this series if I have to, there's absolutely a couple things that could happen that would be irredeemable for me.)

I know we're coming on strong, but it'd be a shame to drop it at this point.

[Solid Snake]

Episode 15

I think all the commentary around this episode built it up in my mind as something where a horrible tragedy would occur that couldn't be reversed, and I imagined all kinds of horrific outcomes for Subaru and Rem that did not actually happen here, so in a sense, y'all shielded me from the worst of this episode.

Like, I thought Rem and Subaru were going to have some fight that ended things permanently between them, or Subaru would be prevented by an opponent from killing himself in such a way as to reset when he'd revive to when he died so that Rem couldn't be saved, or that Subaru would break Rem's heart by prioritizing saving Emilia over saving her, or it'd be something equally crazy.

Watching Rem suffer was agonizing, particularly that one moment where she wasn't dead, that wasn't fun, but in the back of mind I kept telling myself that this was exactly what needed to happen for Subaru to wake the fuck up and start actually getting shit done as opposed to just passively enabling bad things to happen, and I also feel that Subaru needed those moments with Rem to reaffirm what he should really be looking for when it comes to a prospective partner, and both of those things seemed to happen here, so I'm fairly satisfied.

My hope is that Subaru continues to realize how much Rem cares for him and what she's willing to sacrifice for his sake, and my hope is that he becomes more proactive in dealing with the antagonists he's up against.

I am also incredibly confused as to what Sloth's agenda is, who he is, what his relation is to the Witch, how he's able to operate so freely in Roswaal's territory (there's clearly more to the Baron than we think at this juncture) and why the Kingdom's Knights haven't taken more aggressive actions to curtail them and protect the royal candidates. I mean, if this is a commonplace kind of occurrence you'd suspect Roswaal would ensure that Emilia had much more than just two dedicated maids as bodyguards.

That's actually a bit of a worry with Re:Zero I've been struggling to articulate for a while now, that it seems sometimes like the author's endgame for the characters dictates the state of the world and the twists and turns of the plot as opposed to it working the other way around. It's like there's this preconceived goal in mind for each arc, and the characters are going to be as dumb or as smart as they need to be to ensure the next domino falls, and new antagonists are just going to show up at random (including apparently a White Whale at some point?) when the next round of suffering dictates their introductions.

What would benefit Re:Zero is an approach where a lot more of this backstory would be explained and foreshadowed so, for example, the existence of Cultists based on the Seven Sins wouldn't come as a complete surprise here but instead it'd be like "Oh yeah, we heard a lot about those guys at the ceremony and how the Knights were worried that they'd show up and attack the Royal Candidates, it makes sense we'd meet some here."

I guess Subaru just doesn't know much of anything at this juncture but I'm mildly concerned that 15 episodes in I still don't really have a concrete idea as to what the antagonists are trying to achieve or who they are or what they believe or how they operate, and you'd think that'd be the pieces of information everyone from Emilia to Rem to the random thieves and villagers Subaru interacts with would be most eager to share with him given the outrageous threat they are to the half of this world that remains.

Random guess: I suspect that either Subaru or Emilia -- one or the other but not both -- are one of the 'Sins' in the Witch's army. In Emilia's case she could even be the witch herself, suffering from some sort of amnesia. In Subaru's case we've just seen Sloth inquire as to whether he's Pride and now I'm actually wondering about an alternative possibility entirely: That Subaru was originally from this fantasy world and not Earth, lived as Pride, was captured or somehow subdued by the good guys, they sent him to Earth as punishment and eroded all his past memories of the Kingdom and his past life, he lived in Japan as a shut-in dork who loved video games and anime because it resembled his true origins, and somehow the Witch called him back to his true home and that's how all this started.

Just a current thesis I'm running with. It would explain why Subaru is so intrinsically selfish, if nothing else.

Demon Rem is such a badass and I'm so glad we got to witness her wipe out a large number of those freaks.

In the end, Rem's still okay and everything Subaru had to witness is only going to drive the two closer together. The ends justify the means. So long as Subaru retains his powers, the quiet scenes where he ignores or mistreats Rem are much worse than the gruesome moments where he watches her suffer but has a way out.

Also, given the nature of Puck's outrageous power levels at the end there, I'm somewhat surprised the Cultists stood a chance against him alone, that monster could wreck just about anything.

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

Episode 15

I think all the commentary around this episode built it up in my mind as something where a horrible tragedy would occur that couldn't be reversed, and I imagined all kinds of horrific outcomes for Subaru and Rem that did not actually happen here, so in a sense, y'all shielded me from the worst of this episode.

You say that, but:

"I was expecting this episode to be tortorous but so far it is just bizzare"

later

"She's still
No
no no no
No no no no no don't
No
No no no"

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

*snip plot critique*

Yeah, the pacing is a very common critique. I don't think it's spoiler territory to let you know that isn't the last you're gonna see of the cult, and some more of that gets explained. But yeah, definitely valid critiques.

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

Also, given the nature of Puck's outrageous power levels at the end there, I'm somewhat surprised the Cultists stood a chance against him alone, that monster could wreck just about anything.

Emilia mentions in episode 3 how her trump card would only leave her standing, so I think it might actually be because of his power level that they have a chance to do the kind of damage they're getting in. If Puck cuts loose with his full power the destruction is almost worse.

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

I am also incredibly confused as to what Sloth's agenda is, who he is, what his relation is to the Witch, how he's able to operate so freely in Roswaal's territory (there's clearly more to the Baron than we think at this juncture) and why the Kingdom's Knights haven't taken more aggressive actions to curtail them and protect the royal candidates. I mean, if this is a commonplace kind of occurrence you'd suspect Roswaal would ensure that Emilia had much more than just two dedicated maids as bodyguards.

I think Sloth is supposed to be confusing really. As for Emilia's guards it is easy to forget that she's pretty much universally hated for being a silver haired half-elf. So while Roswall is rich he isn't actually that rich and literally no one wants to help him in anyway because of Emilia.

That's actually a bit of a worry with Re:Zero I've been struggling to articulate for a while now, that it seems sometimes like the author's endgame for the characters dictates the state of the world and the twists and turns of the plot as opposed to it working the other way around. It's like there's this preconceived goal in mind for each arc, and the characters are going to be as dumb or as smart as they need to be to ensure the next domino falls, and new antagonists are just going to show up at random (including apparently a White Whale at some point?) when the next round of suffering dictates their introductions.

What would benefit Re:Zero is an approach where a lot more of this backstory would be explained and foreshadowed so, for example, the existence of Cultists based on the Seven Sins wouldn't come as a complete surprise here but instead it'd be like "Oh yeah, we heard a lot about those guys at the ceremony and how the Knights were worried that they'd show up and attack the Royal Candidates, it makes sense we'd meet some here."

If I recall correctly the Witch's Cult showed up for the first time during the Ram and Rem as children flashback. Not that anyone actually called them that then or you got any indication of the Sins thing. RE: Zero foreshadows a lot actually it's just super subtle and vague so you only really know that its foreshadowing the second time you watch it.

Also, given the nature of Puck's outrageous power levels at the end there, I'm somewhat surprised the Cultists stood a chance against him alone, that monster could wreck just about anything.

The problem there is that I believe he has literally no control in the sense that he can't do that at will and when he does do that he can't actually not just kill everything.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Gregness

You say that, but:

I did point out in my title there that there were two terrifying minutes packed in there.
Those would be the two terrifying minutes.
I may genuinely skip those minutes if I ever rewatch this episode.
(But I probably won't because Rem still declares her love for Subaru with her dying breath and it's still adorbs, and Subaru just reverses it all happening anyway.)

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by Solid Snek

I did point out in my title there that there were two terrifying minutes packed in there.
Those would be the two terrifying minutes.

You know, so many forums don't have a title field for posts that I forget and skip over them when I come back here.

[Solid Snake]

Episode 16

Well, let's see if I can start this episode on an objective and impartial note, after all it's been a while since...

- He's holding Rem's hand it's happening it's HAPPENING all the haters of this ship can SUCK IT FUCK THE HATERS Rem and Subaru is everything that matters in the entirety of human existence IF YOU DISAGREE AND PREFER EMILIA OR ANYONE ELSE WITH SUBARU YOU ARE THE VERY DEFINITION OF AWFUL and should feel sorry for yourselves but don't worry Rem and I are forgiving people and we will forgive your sins if you repent hhhhhhnnnnnggggggggg

...Interesting, they're returning to Crusch's mansion. This is a different plan than the one I expected Subaru might devise to deal with this situation.

- I don't recognize this Treasurer dude. Russell. I'm surprised that he apparently recognized Subaru (and Rem?)

- Based on the title of this episode and Russell's position as Treasurer, I'm guessing this is all because he's actually Greed, a member of the Witch's Cult of Sins. You'd have to admit that the Jealous Witch probably has some connections with corrupt insiders in Lugunica's government.

- So it sounds like Subaru has three days before the attack. That's more time than I had thought had passed in that series of events.

- Not sure if I really care for this plan, Subaru. You should have gone to Reinhard, who you know is a fundamentally decent human being and who'd stop to help Emilia regardless of his support of Felt's claim. We're not sure if Crusch and her supporters are so generous...and in fact, based upon that previous scene where Crusch reminded Subaru they were technically 'enemies', it seems a bad idea to expect these folks to drop everything for Roswaal's sake.

- I know Rem's infatuated and all, but from her perspective, isn't it a bit suspicious to witness Subaru claim to have insider information of an attack from a Cult that she believes Subaru has never interacted with before?!? We've seen her outright kill Subaru based on that kind of misunderstanding in another timeline.

- "My next question is how you chose me to assist you." ...Good question, Crusch! You and I are on similar wavelengths here. Wild guess at this juncture but I feel we're witnessing another failed timeline for Subaru.

- That's not true, Subaru; Reinhard would definitely be more willing to assist you than Crusch.

- Yeah, it's not surprising to see Crusch is a bit pragmatic here in negotiating a deal of sorts. She's not the type to act on any emotional bond or empathy for others.

- Continuing with wild speculation: Assuming Subaru agrees to these terms, it's not going to help patch things up with him and Emilia. He'd be unilaterally agreeing without Emilia's input for her to drop her claim to the throne and that's a skeevy move, particularly as Emilia is unaware of the threat on her life.

- Wow, was not expecting Crusch to be quite that brutal a pragmatist in a situation like this. Suggesting that it's of 'equal benefit' for her whether Emilia resigns from contention or dies shows a fundamental disrespect for human life and an unawareness of the scope of the threat of the Cult in a way that actually somewhat lessens my opinion of her.

- Crusch's other argument here, that Subaru knows a bit too much and is suspicious himself, is a better argument to justify her non-involvement. Subaru, you didn't think this through.

- Best Fuckin' Waifu outright lies for Subaru's sake here when she pretends she never felt a trace of the witch's scent on him, and I hope Subaru appreciates that, you fuckin' jerk you BETTER fuckin' appreciate that

- This is one of the better episodes already because it's playing with some really delicious ideas about how Subaru's powers would be misinterpreted in the eyes of others who just witness his actions in individual timelines. Crusch comes to the conclusion that Subaru has some past connection to the Witch's Cult that has led him to an egregious hatred for them (ironically, this would be a more accurate description of Rem) and it perfectly explains Subaru's behavior in this scene, and it makes perfect sense as to why Crusch would jump to that conclusion; only Subaru and us (the viewers) know what's really motivating Subaru.

...I still feel as if Subaru hasn't done enough digging into finding potential pseudo-loopholes that would enable him to explain his future premonitions without risking his life by revealing the true nature of the secret. If he lied and just said he had some magical ability to foretell the future through spiritual arts or some shit, would that be different enough from the true explanation of his powers to immunize him from any consequence?

- "You haven't once said that you want to save Emilia."
My own interpretation of this moment is that Subaru hasn't said this because he's more interested at this juncture with saving Rem, who's being set up as his true love and who he's actually witnessed suffering. He's slowly but subconsciously being led to the truth, here.
But this is a sign of maturity for Subaru anyway, as he's mentioned saving the villagers several times and it's objectively more important to rescue many people than just the life of one woman he may have feelings for. Like, it's weird for Crusch to hold it against Subaru that he actually has the right ethical outlook on this for a change.

- "Subaru-kun, please calm down."
Best Goddamn Waifu Everybody

- I gotta say, as much of a jerk I find him in most situations, this is a great scene for Subaru. He doesn't back down, he doesn't give in, he's angry but it makes perfect sense in context for him to act out like this, and he doesn't selfishly make it all about Emilia. He bites his lip and won't even accept healing it. I know this isn't working out the way he intended, because it was kind of a shoddy plan on his part, but independently of his poor planning this is still a moment of solid character from him, which is something he's generally lacked in many other scenes.

...Of course, I attribute all this character growth directly to Rem, because these kinds of moments from Subaru happen when she's around (see: Episode 11) and do not happen when Emilia's around. Rem...her presence, the threat of her suffering or dying, their connection and bond...all of these things seem to prevent Subaru from defaulting back into his standard role as the irredeemably self-centered douchebag.

- "I hope you become a great ruler, the kind of dictator who abandons the weak." DAY-EMN Subaru's bringing the FIRE out this evening

- Subaru, put two and two together during this scene with Rem and ask who's requested Roswaal's presence. I'm betting they're related in some way to the Witch's Cult, as the timing for his absence is too perfect.

- FINALLY SUBARU REMEMBERED REINHARD
Goddamn Subaru, how could you forget him so easily? This should've been your first idea from the very start.
...Oh, he's away from the Capital. Damn.

DON'T YOU DARE FUCKING CALL REM USELESS WHILE SHE'S LOOKING AT YOU LIKE THAT
Subaru you are wasting through all that previous goodwill from last scene
I am gonna reach my fist into this screen somehow and bludgeon you to fucking death if you make her feel bad again
I swear on all the gods and goddesses ever known I will find a way to haunt you you shut-in scrub

YOU DIDN'T EVEN FUCKING APOLOGIZE
Subaru you deserve fifty million more deaths
Just millions upon millions of agonies

-She's your first idea of the 'other candidate' to track down, Subaru? The transparently evil one?!?
...That was not smart.
You are not smart.

(...And I may well have immediately been proven wrong depending on the nature of this 'chance' she's willing to give him.)

- He just has to lick her feet? What's the catch?!?
...Dammit Subaru, don't waste all that positive character development immediately by indulging in stupid "I wuv Emilia" flashbacks

- Aaand the catch is she's just going to kick the crap out of him.
Still, I can't blame Subaru here. It's not so much that her criticism is wrong, but like Crusch, she's judging Subaru based on incomplete information.
Any village idiot could've told Subaru that she'd be unwilling to help, though. Yet again, I can't really fault Subaru's decisions in the moment, but he generally lacks a cohesive longer-term plan.

- Wow.
She really hates him and it's for quite possibly the one reason I can't begrudge Subaru for.

- Al (who has a very long and much more medieval-sounding full name I'll never type here) is still as delightfully nonchalant as ever.
...And we learned he wears that helmet all the time because his face has been 'ruined' in some capacity.

- Aww, it's a cute little demi-human.

- Hey, maybe Anastasia's going to do something that will actually lead me to remember her as not just 'the other one!'

- She's actually being helpful! Now, try not to talk her out of helping you, Subaru. Sometimes you just can't look that gift horse in the mouth.

- That adorbz kid is second-in-command of an army?!?!?
...Yeah okay.

- Hey, we finally have a canon lesbian!
At least that's what I'm assuming based on Anastasia's mostly-inappropriate declaration here.
A sarcastic 'Huzzah' here for Japan's obsession with technically-of-age girls who still look like prepubescent children

- ...They have cheeseburgers in this fantasy universe.
Hmm. Sure.

- Crusch is going to war? Interesting.

- Aww shit Anastasia is in the big leagues now. Even she's managing to school Subaru.
(Though given Subaru's powers, can Subaru really 'lose' in any capacity, given that this is all just knowledge he can turn around and use against them when he inevitably replays the timeline?)

- As if on cue, Anastasia blurbs about reputation and notes that Subaru can't change the past, only he actually can, so it'll be interesting to see him turn the tables when he inevitably redoes all this.
(...If he even turns the tables. This all assumes Subaru is smart enough to play his cards right, and he's nothing if not capable of utterly fucking up any hand he's dealt.)

- Hahaha everyone else there was a part of Anastasia's gang.
That would have ended poorly if Subaru acted as much of an angry dolt as he did with Crusch.
And strangely enough, I'm back to think Crusch is the most honorable candidate who isn't Felt or Emilia in this royal selection shindig

- Of course Rem shows up at the end her to cheer Subaru up...
...Sadly she doesn't have the best of news.
And Subaru's new 'plan' isn't very well thought out.
...Oh, it's Otto!

- Where is Subaru going to get the money to buy all this stuff?!?
REM TO THE RESCUE, OF FUCKIN' COURSE
Goddamn I love her so much she's my Waifu not yours get your own you jerks


- ...How the hell does Subaru's cell phone still have battery life? Well, I guess he hasn't had much reason to turn it on lately. But it seems dangerous to waste what little battery life is left before we can turn a profit by selling it.

- ...Hmm. Apparently Subaru was talking to a ghost.
Or a cultist?
OR A GIANT FREAKY EYEBALL WUT


...So, uhh...
...What happened to the guy next to Subaru in the caravan?
I'm guessing he was...apparently...some manifestation of that creature?!?
What the hell was that thing, anyway?

Kind of a boring episode from a Rem and Subaru perspective, but there was still some interesting character development there

And the ending sequence song ENDS WITH REM AND SUBARU
SUBARU AND REM
HAPPY TOGETHER
REM AND SUBARU
SUBARU AND REM
REM AND SUBARU
SUBARU AND REM
happy happy happy smiling so happy
No Emilia No Ram No One Else
SHIP IS 100% CONFIRMED LET'S GO LET'S GO LET'S GO
BLAST OFF TO THE HEAVENS YYYYEEESSSS

[Gregness]

Awwww yiss. I was getting withdrawals from going too long without this thread's suffering.

Before I get into addressing any of your specific concerns, think back to the episode title. The Greed of a Pig? The 'pig' isn't the treasurer, it's Subaru.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Gregness

Before I get into addressing any of your specific concerns, think back to the episode title. The Greed of a Pig? The 'pig' isn't the treasurer, it's Subaru.

...Interesting. I appreciate the show's, and the other characters' willingness to call Subaru out as an ass when he truly behaves like one, but this was honestly probably about the least insufferable he's been. He sort of botched things with Crusch (but I almost appreciate him acting justifiably frustrated for a change) but I don't think he did anything wrong with Anastasia aside from misjudging her character.

It also almost seemed akin to a net positive for Subaru to show that, when given the opportunity, other characters with even greater positions of authority could be just as selfish and incapable of compassion as he's been.

Still, he sucks with long-term planning. Given how Rem's lovely and perfect affections for the poor boy have clearly led her to instinctively believe and support him, I almost wish Subaru was like "Here's the problem, Rem...do you have any ideas?" because she's evidently the brains in their impending relationship.

I think a lot of the issue I had with this episode was actually the candidates collectively mistaking Subaru's sheer unbridled idiocy with all the 'greedy' traits they ended up labeling him with and lecturing him over. Crusch's otherwise more decent points were tempered by her strange notion that Subaru ought to have cared *more* about Emilia specifically when Subaru was actually acting appropriately empathetic for a change, and I wasn't really convinced that Anastasia knew or cared for Subaru enough for her lecture to even feel like a genuine in-character moment for her, felt more that the author was using her in the moment to voice his own objections to Subaru.

...All in all there are a few problems here that prevent this from being a top-tier episode for me, but I do appreciate that Subaru isn't being written as the infallible protagonist. I'm just not convinced that the other candidates were the ideal vessels of said criticisms. I actually wish Rem was written as three-dimensional enough to lose her cool with him just once as he dragged her from diplomatic incident to incident and seemed to lack a concrete vision to win anyone over.