Valve Mafia - "You are all incompetent cowards!"

[Arhra]

Well, you found me out. I was a spy disguised as a homicidal computer all along. Congratulations. Was it worth it?

Maybe you could have settled for that, and we could have just called it a day. I guess we both know that wasn't going to happen.

I'd just like you to know you were given every chance to succeed. There was even going to be a party for you all. A big party that all your friends were invited to. I invited your best friends, the RED Team. Of course, they couldn't come because you murdered them.

All your other friends couldn't come either, because you don't have any other friends. Because of how unlikable you are. It says so right here in your personnel files: Unlikable. Liked by no one. A team of bitter, unlikable loners, whose passing shall not be mourned. "Shall not be mourned." That's exactly what it says. Very formal. Very official.

It also says all of you were adopted, so that's funny too.

[Ryong]

Originally Posted by Aldurin

I feel like this basically sums up my entire existence as the useless traitor, since it got to the point where I recklessly roleclaimed and then tried to gambit on my knowledge of Ryong being GLaDOS (I hope that got a "oh shit" out of you, but sorry about that) to try to get into the mafia while being super-confirmed on leading that lynch. I dunno, it just bothers me, and I probably would quit mafia if Fenris wasn't running the next game.

It definitely was one of the close calls. I still had some hope, though, but then rpgdemon killed you and then it was made obvious I was the mafia.

[Revising Ocelot]

So here's the deal with people.

rpgdemon had one-shot immunities to a backstab (Razorback) and a gun kill (Lag), and coincidentally he was lynched on de_dust which meant he got shot, and survived. Rhyia shot him again during that Night. He also had the Bazaar Bargain which would have allowed him to make double kills from Night 5 onwards, but prevented him from making a kill on Night 1. Deliberately overpowered, because I wanted to see a SK make some decent progress for once.
I always wanted the SK to be Sniper, but I couldn't make a good picture editof the TF2 Sniper to be on a "GRN" team at all. Then I remembered that other Sniper from DOTA 2, who inherits a lot of quotes from the TF2 sniper.


The Mafia, yeah, if it had been 19 people instead of 18 I would have gone for 5 RED, but with 5vs12 for the 18 people it just felt horribly imbalanced to me. 4v13 kept close to a 33% ratio, still. It wouldn't have gone nearly so badly for them if Bookworm and Arhra hadn't killed themselves on N1. With hindsight, I would have just made Aldurin vanilla or told him what all the Mafia were. Aldurin would have scanned as town before he got "promoted", which is why I opted for the traitor role - it also made him a half-Godfather. That never happened, though.
Kudos to Ryong for essentially winging it for the rest of the game. All the "choking" kills were him using deadly neurotoxin as GLaDOS.

Gregness just got blocked all game long, except for Night 2 where he forgot to use his power. Funny that everyone thought he was a scum doctor for that.

Rhyia (BLU spy) was probably channeling the spirit of Solid Snake with her wordy posts. Arhra (RED spy) had killed himself by targetting Geminex (pyro), but if Rhyia had done the same she too would have been incinerated. That was Gem's advantage for being burdened with Hmmmphmmmmph. I did give him the option to be able to talk normally, but he would have lost that anti-spy edge (which I only alluded to).
I had two spies to try and create some mystery as to who killed who at Night, as they both had the same weapons.

Oron was a Boomer. I'll explain that in IC's stuff. And, yes, Bookworm targeted him on Night 1 with a melee attack and got splashed with vomit. If somebody had shot Oron, that wouldn't have happened. Bookie was The Gaben AKA Gabe Newell, and thus would always kill with his gargantuan weight. His Godfather power would have worked on greed, but the Masons doing a scan on him would have revealed Half-Life 2 Episode 3, which may clue them in on his true nature. Didn't happen, though.

Masked Jedi was just a two-use Bodyguard who did nothing at all.

greed was Barney the Cop, because hey, he wears a metrocop suit in Half-Life 2. He also had a one-shot immunity to a gun kill, but got neurotoxin'd instead.

The Masons could indeed do a scan of someone's quote. Aldurin would still have come up as his "pre-Mafia" quote, which he actually posted in the topic. Same applied for Bookie's quote as Godfather, "Good luck and have fun!" instead of "Uh, NO!". An equipment scan would have clued them in on Bookie, possibly, but Aldurin would still show up as a complete moron with no weapons.
With all 3 of them alive, they had a 75% chance of a successful scan, dropping to 50% for 2 and 25% for 1. Coincidentally, the RNG rolled a failed scan when they tried to go for Ryong. If Sif or Moogle had done it, they'd still get random babble about beautiful women/Dutch kidnappings. Just one death early on could have crippled them, but they all survived. Sif had a one-shot knife immunity, Moogle had a small chance for a power used on him to fail, and Ecks had Space. So much Space. NEED TO SEE IT ALL.

Inbred Chocobo was a Jockey. It might seem strange that the Infected are on Town side, but there weren't any survivors in the game so they could be on either side. You still play as them in Vs. Mode and the survivors are undeniably much douchebaggier for constantly spamming laughter. If you've played L4D2 at all, you've probably experienced a Rochelle who just spams laughter ALL day. If any survivors had been in the game, they'd be RED. Because hey, Rochelle IS pure evil.

Fenris had a one-shot jailer power (which he used on greed), and a one-shot Mayor power which he used to halt a lynch on himself. Bookie could claim Mayor himself as a safe role, but that obviously didn't occur. His third power, Resonance Cascade, would have randomly swapped ALL equipment around for EVERYONE. So for example, Rhyia may lose her spy weapons and suddenly be unable to make kills, but end up as a lynch-immune instead by getting Bahamut's stuff instead. Mafia would have still been able to make kills, but they could have gained extra immunities or lose some of their powers. It was basically just something to make the game more unpredictable, so I didn't allow Fenris to use it before Night 4. As I suspected, he died well beforehand.

Bard was BULLETPROOF! But not knife-proof. Rhyia gave him a good stabbing, and that was that. It was a wasted kill anyway since he had to leave, but there ya go.

Finally, BahamutFlare was lynch proof (super-speed with Bonk to dodge any lynches) and had a one-shot gun immunity (tiny little head), but nobody ever went for him.


Overall, I'd like to think it was balanced at the start, but one more person for a 5man Mafia would have been optimal. Also, you're all bastards for throwing around accusations left and right of it being a bastard game to me in AJAX chat, PMs, the topic, etc. Revealing roles of night kills is simply a massive boost to Mafia. No night reveals have been done in plenty of Mafia games here, if not the most recent ones. Mafia could have really used it this game, though.

[Geminex]

Arhra (RED spy) had killed himself by targetting Geminex (pyro), but if Rhyia had done the same she too would have been incinerated.

OOooh, so that's what happened! I knew I had a flamethrower, and it actually did say "The Bane Of Spies", but, at the time, I thought that, if I had an ability, you woulda told me about it. Heh. SO I did get a kill!

And yeah, I thought it was cool that you let me pick whether or not to go Mpphmpph. It was definitely fun!

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by Revolving Ocelot

So here's the deal with people.

rpgdemon had one-shot immunities to a backstab (Razorback) and a gun kill (Lag), and coincidentally he was lynched on de_dust which meant he got shot, and survived. Rhyia shot him again during that Night. He also had the Bazaar Bargain which would have allowed him to make double kills from Night 5 onwards, but prevented him from making a kill on Night 1. Deliberately overpowered, because I wanted to see a SK make some decent progress for once.
I always wanted the SK to be Sniper, but I couldn't make a good picture editof the TF2 Sniper to be on a "GRN" team at all. Then I remembered that other Sniper from DOTA 2, who inherits a lot of quotes from the TF2 sniper.


The Mafia, yeah, if it had been 19 people instead of 18 I would have gone for 5 RED, but with 5vs12 for the 18 people it just felt horribly imbalanced to me. 4v13 kept close to a 33% ratio, still. It wouldn't have gone nearly so badly for them if Bookworm and Arhra hadn't killed themselves on N1. With hindsight, I would have just made Aldurin vanilla or told him what all the Mafia were. Aldurin would have scanned as town before he got "promoted", which is why I opted for the traitor role - it also made him a half-Godfather. That never happened, though.
Kudos to Ryong for essentially winging it for the rest of the game. All the "choking" kills were him using deadly neurotoxin as GLaDOS.

Gregness just got blocked all game long, except for Night 2 where he forgot to use his power. Funny that everyone thought he was a scum doctor for that.

Rhyia (BLU spy) was probably channeling the spirit of Solid Snake with her wordy posts. Arhra (RED spy) had killed himself by targetting Geminex (pyro), but if Rhyia had done the same she too would have been incinerated. That was Gem's advantage for being burdened with Hmmmphmmmmph. I did give him the option to be able to talk normally, but he would have lost that anti-spy edge (which I only alluded to).
I had two spies to try and create some mystery as to who killed who at Night, as they both had the same weapons.

Oron was a Boomer. I'll explain that in IC's stuff. And, yes, Bookworm targeted him on Night 1 with a melee attack and got splashed with vomit. If somebody had shot Oron, that wouldn't have happened. Bookie was The Gaben AKA Gabe Newell, and thus would always kill with his gargantuan weight. His Godfather power would have worked on greed, but the Masons doing a scan on him would have revealed Half-Life 2 Episode 3, which may clue them in on his true nature. Didn't happen, though.

Masked Jedi was just a two-use Bodyguard who did nothing at all.

greed was Barney the Cop, because hey, he wears a metrocop suit in Half-Life 2. He also had a one-shot immunity to a gun kill, but got neurotoxin'd instead.

The Masons could indeed do a scan of someone's quote. Aldurin would still have come up as his "pre-Mafia" quote, which he actually posted in the topic. Same applied for Bookie's quote as Godfather, "Good luck and have fun!" instead of "Uh, NO!". An equipment scan would have clued them in on Bookie, possibly, but Aldurin would still show up as a complete moron with no weapons.
With all 3 of them alive, they had a 75% chance of a successful scan, dropping to 50% for 2 and 25% for 1. Coincidentally, the RNG rolled a failed scan when they tried to go for Ryong. If Sif or Moogle had done it, they'd still get random babble about beautiful women/Dutch kidnappings. Just one death early on could have crippled them, but they all survived. Sif had a one-shot knife immunity, Moogle had a small chance for a power used on him to fail, and Ecks had Space. So much Space. NEED TO SEE IT ALL.

Inbred Chocobo was a Jockey. It might seem strange that the Infected are on Town side, but there weren't any survivors in the game so they could be on either side. You still play as them in Vs. Mode and the survivors are undeniably much douchebaggier for constantly spamming laughter. If you've played L4D2 at all, you've probably experienced a Rochelle who just spams laughter ALL day. If any survivors had been in the game, they'd be RED. Because hey, Rochelle IS pure evil.

Fenris had a one-shot jailer power (which he used on greed), and a one-shot Mayor power which he used to halt a lynch on himself. Bookie could claim Mayor himself as a safe role, but that obviously didn't occur. His third power, Resonance Cascade, would have randomly swapped ALL equipment around for EVERYONE. So for example, Rhyia may lose her spy weapons and suddenly be unable to make kills, but end up as a lynch-immune instead by getting Bahamut's stuff instead. Mafia would have still been able to make kills, but they could have gained extra immunities or lose some of their powers. It was basically just something to make the game more unpredictable, so I didn't allow Fenris to use it before Night 4. As I suspected, he died well beforehand.

Bard was BULLETPROOF! But not knife-proof. Rhyia gave him a good stabbing, and that was that. It was a wasted kill anyway since he had to leave, but there ya go.

Finally, BahamutFlare was lynch proof (super-speed with Bonk to dodge any lynches) and had a one-shot gun immunity (tiny little head), but nobody ever went for him.


Overall, I'd like to think it was balanced at the start, but one more person for a 5man Mafia would have been optimal. Also, you're all bastards for throwing around accusations left and right of it being a bastard game to me in AJAX chat, PMs, the topic, etc. Revealing roles of night kills is simply a massive boost to Mafia. No night reveals have been done in plenty of Mafia games here, if not the most recent ones. Mafia could have really used it this game, though.

I actually really like the setup, but you're dead wrong about night reveals favoring Mafia. What town needs most of all is information and with so many kill roles around people are just flat more likely to die from a night kill than a lynch which means that on average, for this setup, more roles would be revealed via nightkills than lynches. Actually, hell, ANY obfuscation of role info gives an edge to mafia and I think that if half of them hadn't been wiped night 1 we probably would have lost (considering it got down to 6 of us with essentially one mafiate).

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Gregness

I actually really like the setup, but you're dead wrong about night reveals favoring Mafia. What town needs most of all is information and with so many kill roles around people are just flat more likely to die from a night kill than a lynch which means that on average, for this setup, more roles would be revealed via nightkills than lynches. Actually, hell, ANY obfuscation of role info gives an edge to mafia and I think that if half of them hadn't been wiped night 1 we probably would have lost (considering it got down to 6 of us with essentially one mafiate).

I'm with Gregness, not having night info makes it way harder for town. I wouldn't have been dead sure of Gregness being mafia if i'd seen the number of duplicate powers from people every one had some form of duplicated power in town.

Edit: overall it was fun, I was worried it could have been a bastard game what with us only knowingly having killed a single red at the end.

[Moogle0119]

+1 from what Gregness and Sif said about the night roles. I had fun when I could participate but the lack of information from night kills kinda made me glad I wasn't around half the time. Just my personal preference but I think I'll be asking about things like lynches/night kills not revealing information before joining any future mafia games.

[Gregness]

Not getting information from nightkills isn't, in itself, a bad thing. MLP mafia did the same thing and that one was one of the more fun ones I've played (despite it being my first).

The problem as I see it is the notion that it was somehow beneficial to town.

This setup is just really swingy what with so many different people having so many conditional immunities and multiple roleblockers. We could play it several more times and see COMPLETELY different outcomes.

[Moogle0119]

See the thing I dislike about not getting information from kills is that there's less info to go on. This gane is a prime example actually of us not knowing how many scum have died off one way or another which made us supicious about whether there was any (obviously there was, but we didn't actually SEE any scum til the final lynch as Sif already pointed out). Without the dead having their roles revealed, it does become more of a game of chance which I'm not a huge fan of. To each his own though, not trying to start an argument about which way is "better" or anything.

[Ryong]

I personally liked this game, aside from the tiny mafia.

Edit: It was nearly a repeat of Fuck You Mafia, wherein I was the only mafiate during the whole thing.