Another Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion - Page 53

ZAKtheGeek · 10-08-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

The donation requests will help "cover the expense involved in compassionate outreach to our brothers and sisters who suffered sexual abuse within the family of the church," the memo said.

That's a nice way to make it sound voluntary.

Magus · 10-17-2007, 11:28 PM

Apparently, Fifth, that's why they threw in that comment about the priests making 1500 or so dollars a month, because 350 dollars a week is just SCADS of money. Or something. Also they tried to make it sound like most of them make that money when they don't.

The Church should be making this payment, I just don't see where it required a whole month's salary from all the members when as you said the Church itself has a ton of funding to pay it with.

I am also glad for the new topic, as all that talk of Quantum Mechanics for the last page or so was making my head ache. If you all do want to talk about THAT some more, I would say that any theory that makes suppositions involving time as an actual physical thing that exists is just silly. Discuss.

Elminster_Amaur · 10-17-2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

I would say that any theory that makes suppositions involving time as an actual physical thing that exists is just silly.

Why shouldn't time actually exist? I mean, sure, absolute time doesn't exist, but time is merely the linear progression of events as experienced from the point of view of beings who do not experience all events simultaneously.

What I'm trying to say is that...most people assume that time is a linear progression of events, but really it's more of a bowl. It's all...wibbly-wobbly, time-y-wimey.

Sorry, I couldn't help it, it's such an awesome quote. Anyway, my point is that time is a physical thing. It is a purely physical thing because only physical beings can experience it. Spiritual beings are outside of time.

MasterOfMagic · 10-17-2007, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elminster_Amaur

Spiritual beings are outside of time.

That's an odd statement. How so?

Ryong · 10-19-2007, 06:09 PM

Oh I just noticed this thread and now I want to contribute. Here in Brazil there is a church that gives it enough reasons to be hated a LOT. Basically, through the use of insane ammounts of taking advantage of the weak, the "priest" goes around saying how they're all going to be saved and how they should believe that Christ will help them, and how they're chosen and yadda-yadda. Standard Christian church, right? Wrong. Basically, each and every church works on its own, with the priest being the leader. You CAN go to another church of the same "religion", since it'll all end up the same way. The same way being, you have to get rid of the earthly needs so you're not going to hell. How do you do this? By paying them. A lot. Like, US$10 per day you go there, and from what I've heard you need to go there 3 times a week, at least. You're also supposed to "buy your own space in heaven" by paying the equivalent of a month's minimum wage, which would be US$211, an one-time only payment. There are numerous videos, pictures, relatories and such on how people who didn't follow the rules got beaten the crap out of them, in public. This involves the priest saying how he'll get the demon out of the person's body, and proceed to beat the person 'til he thinks it's enough. You ask it to anyone who's in the church, they'll deny everything.

Frostatine · 10-19-2007, 06:25 PM

Well at least they dont touch little boys.

The Kneumatic Pnight · 10-19-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

I would say that any theory that makes suppositions involving time as an actual physical thing that exists is just silly. Discuss.

Things that affect space demonstrably affect time. This is a theory in so much as that we've seen it and know it happens.

Edit: Also, that's mostly Relativity than Quantum Mechanics.

Roy_D_Mylote · 10-19-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

I'm not saying compare and contrast: Yahweh versus Brahman. I'm saying compare and contrast: "love your neighbor as yourself" and "The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp" (after a bloke is found gathering sticks on the sabbath - horror of horrors). Could the same man love everyone and punish them for anything and everything they do? I suggest that he could not (at least not without stretching the word "love" to meaninglessness).

That's not even arguing for or against God, that's arguing the inerrancy of the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

If matter can neither be created nor destroyed, then where the fuck did God come from?

Which is a greater leap - that there was a first cause, and it was a complex vaguely anthropomorphic (or not, depending on how you need to respond to criticism) God, OR that it was a big old clump of matter?Let me rephrase it for you. If I am trying to create life, why would I make it so goddamn hard for life to exist basically everywhere? Working for happiness is fine. But having to fight a very uphill struggle with the universe to even walk on Earth's natural satellite? No, strike that - having to deal with the very likely possibility that I will not live to the age of ten through no fault of my own? Just because I happen to catch smallpox or AIDS or any number of a billion-on diseases that used to be common causes of death before we got medicine and industrialization and the scientific method a meager few hundred years ago.

There's a difference between difficulty in the senses of "boy, this game is hardcore!" and "what the fuck my character just exploded for no goddamn reason!" - diseases make the latter true of Earth.

What you would do in a situation is utterly irrelevant to what a deity who in all likelihood is nothing like humans at all would do.

Serenity · 10-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote

That's not even arguing for or against God, that's arguing the inerrancy of the Bible.

Oh, I'm sorry, you believe in God but not the Bible? Then you don't believe in Christian God...

Well, okay, I suppose you could be a New Testament + Ten Commandments Christian, but your next point makes it pretty clear you're not an NT10C Christian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote

What you would do in a situation is utterly irrelevant to what a deity who in all likelihood is nothing like humans at all would do.

If a deity is nothing like humans at all, he cannot be benevolent, nor can he desire social interaction. In which case he neither deserves praise/worship nor wants it. Indeed, if a deific force created this universe, it's not worth my time, seeing as how it went to all the trouble of covering the whole thing up, and also falls under the category of "maleficent".

Roy_D_Mylote · 10-19-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

Oh, I'm sorry, you believe in God but not the Bible? Then you don't believe in Christian God...

It's possible to believe in both the Christian God, and believe that not everything in the Bible is God's Will.

Quote:

If a deity is nothing like humans at all, he cannot be benevolent, nor can he desire social interaction. In which case he neither deserves praise/worship nor wants it. Indeed, if a deific force created this universe, it's not worth my time, seeing as how it went to all the trouble of covering the whole thing up, and also falls under the category of "maleficent".

I don't see the part where that refutes my points.

10-17-2007, 11:28 PM	#522
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Apparently, Fifth, that's why they threw in that comment about the priests making 1500 or so dollars a month, because 350 dollars a week is just SCADS of money. Or something. Also they tried to make it sound like most of them make that money when they don't. The Church should be making this payment, I just don't see where it required a whole month's salary from all the members when as you said the Church itself has a ton of funding to pay it with. I am also glad for the new topic, as all that talk of Quantum Mechanics for the last page or so was making my head ache. If you all do want to talk about THAT some more, I would say that any theory that makes suppositions involving time as an actual physical thing that exists is just silly. Discuss. __________________ The Valiant Review

10-19-2007, 06:25 PM	#526
Frostatine Flying Manta Rays With Teeth Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgetown KY Posts: 796	Well at least they dont touch little boys. __________________ NPF, where the mods are kind and professional

10-19-2007, 06:09 PM	#525
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	Oh I just noticed this thread and now I want to contribute. Here in Brazil there is a church that gives it enough reasons to be hated a LOT. Basically, through the use of insane ammounts of taking advantage of the weak, the "priest" goes around saying how they're all going to be saved and how they should believe that Christ will help them, and how they're chosen and yadda-yadda. Standard Christian church, right? Wrong. Basically, each and every church works on its own, with the priest being the leader. You CAN go to another church of the same "religion", since it'll all end up the same way. The same way being, you have to get rid of the earthly needs so you're not going to hell. How do you do this? By paying them. A lot. Like, US$10 per day you go there, and from what I've heard you need to go there 3 times a week, at least. You're also supposed to "buy your own space in heaven" by paying the equivalent of a month's minimum wage, which would be US$211, an one-time only payment. There are numerous videos, pictures, relatories and such on how people who didn't follow the rules got beaten the crap out of them, in public. This involves the priest saying how he'll get the demon out of the person's body, and proceed to beat the person 'til he thinks it's enough. You ask it to anyone who's in the church, they'll deny everything.