Another Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion - Page 54

42PETUNIAS · 10-19-2007, 09:46 PM

Well, if the bible isn't the full truth, what reason do you have to believe any of the things in there?

Roy_D_Mylote · 10-19-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

Well, if the bible isn't the full truth, what reason do you have to believe any of the things in there?

Faith in enough of it being true.

It's not the best answer.

Serenity · 10-19-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote

It's possible to believe in both the Christian God, and believe that not everything in the Bible is God's Will.

Well, there are certain variants which stretch it a little further, like New Testament and Ten Commandments Christianity (comprised of only the New Testament, the Ten Commandments, and sometimes Psalms). But, really tangental. The whole "throw that damned racist, misogynist, hateful Old Testament out the window" is just a silly variant of what I was talking about, Jesus religion. If Jesus isn't the son of God, then you aren't a Christian, by definition. If the Bible is not a reliable source, then you have no evidence, beyond the fact that some roman "historians" noted this Jesus guy (but roman historians were no-where near as diligent as modern ones).

Besides, your other statement ruled out you being a Christian, because the Christian God is benevolent. If you believe in some person who was the earthly incarnation of a powerful deity, whose name was Jesus, but has no similarity to the Jesus of Christian myth (in terms of personality), you aren't a Christian. Story ends there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy_D_Mylote

I don't see the part where that refutes my points.

What "points"? The points where a hypothetical deity could theoretically just be koo-koo bananas? Fine, here's some refutation

Hey, you know what? This idea of making stuff up which explains nothing and only creates questions is great. How about this: the entire universe is just your hallucination because you're really a brain in a jar? You can't disprove it. It doesn't explain anything about the world. It only raises more questions. Sounds like the recipe to this "alien deity" stuff to me.

Roy_D_Mylote · 10-19-2007, 10:46 PM

You're correct. I have no better factually-based reason to believe in God than I do that I'm a brain-inna-jar.

And the Roman historians have noted that Jesus existed historically, and I can believe that there wasn't a massive conspiracy to defraud the entire planet when the apostles wrote that Jesus was the Son of God. It's just that I can't fathom on any level a god who has an entire, infinite universe to run and in all probability lives outside linear time getting uppity because human beings told a fib.

Ryong · 10-19-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

Well, if the bible isn't the full truth, what reason do you have to believe any of the things in there?

The bible wasn't written by one person, you could clash your opinions with a part of it, not necessarily all of it.

And now, to state my previous point again. The Christian all-powerful and all-loving god feels to me as something way, way too wrong to believe. If he/she/it is an all-powerful and all-loving god, then there wouldn't be evil. The darn thing contradicts itself. It contradicts itself more because it states that we mustn't do evil so we can go to heaven. So, life's just a big test and if the god was all-loving, would it want its creations to suffer eternally, because they did something not to his/her/its liking? And if it is all-powerful, why not just erase what happened completely? I believe that most people who are "adepts" of christianity never gave it too much thought. No, I'm not calling them dumb, I'm just saying they didn't want to think about it.

ZAKtheGeek · 10-19-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Faith in enough of it being true.

It's not the best answer.

It's really not an answer at all, since you were asked for a reason. Faith alone is specifically the lack of any reasons.

Roy_D_Mylote · 10-19-2007, 11:32 PM

Then I very specifically have no reason.

Frostatine · 10-20-2007, 01:13 AM

not necessarily, faith is trusting the outcome of a situation to something much bigger than yourself.

This differs from gambling and fate in many ways, most of them involving making sacrifices and whatnot.

ZAKtheGeek · 10-20-2007, 10:23 AM

"Trust" is still not a reason. You're basically just using a synonym for faith here.

I have no idea what the second sentence is talking about.

Bob The Mercenary · 10-20-2007, 05:49 PM

Found this post on another forum and I think it applies here, even though I don't particularly agree with 100% of it.

Quote:

14. God is warlike [Ex 15:3 / Is 51:15]

God is peaceful [Rom 15:33 / 1 Cor 14:33]

"The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name." [Ex 15:3]

(Is 51:15 has nothing to do with war)

"The God of peace be with you all. Amen" [Rom 15:33]

"For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace." [1 Cor 14:33]

It seems clear that God reveals Himself as a God of Battles in much of the OT. So what of these NT teachings? This "contradiction" is premised on equivocation, where the NT references to peace are interpreted to be the antonym of war, when this is obviously not the case. In Romans, Paul seems to be speaking of peace in a subjective, existential sense -- a relationship with God brings a sense of peace. In Corinthians, Paul is speaking about the activity of Church congregations -- they should be orderly and peaceful, not full of confusion and contention. No obvious contradiction here.

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious [Jer 13:14 / Deut 7:16 / 1 Sam 15:2,3 / 1 Sam 6:19]

God is kind, merciful, and good [James 5:11 / Lam 3:33 / 1 Chron 16:34 / Ezek 18:32 / Ps 145:9 / 1 Tim 2:4 / 1 John 4:16 / Ps 25:8]

The first set of scriptures say nothing about God being cruel (this is a subjective call). They deal simply and bluntly with God's judgment. Thus, we have a both/and situation here. Yes, God is merciful and full of compassion. Yet, those who reject his mercy and compassion will find that His judgment in unrelenting and ferocious -- that is His nature.

Most of the recent discussion here has been on verses in the Bible that are taken out of context.

10-19-2007, 09:46 PM	#531
42PETUNIAS helloooo! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Court Posts: 2,816	Well, if the bible isn't the full truth, what reason do you have to believe any of the things in there? __________________ noooo! why are you doing that?!

10-19-2007, 10:46 PM	#534
Roy_D_Mylote Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The sky. Posts: 1,030	You're correct. I have no better factually-based reason to believe in God than I do that I'm a brain-inna-jar. And the Roman historians have noted that Jesus existed historically, and I can believe that there wasn't a massive conspiracy to defraud the entire planet when the apostles wrote that Jesus was the Son of God. It's just that I can't fathom on any level a god who has an entire, infinite universe to run and in all probability lives outside linear time getting uppity because human beings told a fib. __________________ I hate roleclaims.

10-19-2007, 11:32 PM	#537
Roy_D_Mylote Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The sky. Posts: 1,030	Then I very specifically have no reason. __________________ I hate roleclaims.

10-20-2007, 01:13 AM	#538
Frostatine Flying Manta Rays With Teeth Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Georgetown KY Posts: 796	not necessarily, faith is trusting the outcome of a situation to something much bigger than yourself. This differs from gambling and fate in many ways, most of them involving making sacrifices and whatnot. __________________ NPF, where the mods are kind and professional

10-20-2007, 10:23 AM	#539
ZAKtheGeek Worth every yenny Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: not my mind that's for sure! Posts: 1,299	"Trust" is still not a reason. You're basically just using a synonym for faith here. I have no idea what the second sentence is talking about. __________________ Pyro Icon - It needs your love. I haven't looked at it in months.