Hatland Mafia

[Aldurin]

Originally Posted by Fenris

Are you really going with tl;dr as your reasoning for this?

Like I just want to know if you're really going with tl;dr as your reasoning for this.

Yes, I am actually getting fed up with this pink bullshit that as much as it does try to look helpful it will probably drive us into the ground. Snake could easily be doing this as scum, which would be massively in his favor because of how he posts with such conviction and strength, and if he isn't a policy lynch may be in order so that he doesn't disorient the rest of us.

I could barely follow his posts last game. I don't like it.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

Snake: Will make up a bunch of reasons for people to be scum, and then say, "If they're not, they have to do this!". Then, if the people do the other thing, will go, "Hah, caught you, you're scum since you played like your townie profile, after I pointed it out!"

Yes, I think I already established that confusing many of you was basically the point.
Also, given I was dead-on in my articulations of my suspicions of you based on your behavior in the MLP game -- remember when I was totally like "RPG is too assertive, it means he's scum" and you were the SK? ...I mean, you haven't really given me any incentive to stop.

Again, D1 strategy for me in MLP was to be confusing and archaic and interject semblances of my serious inklings and suspicions into a few serious posts that were scattered among the chaos. Also, because forcing everyone to be active and over-defensive in my first Mafia game here gives me a great point of reference to compare and contrast how everyone reacts when they're pressured as Scum and/or Town. Clearly you and Smarty hate the method to my madness, but there is a method, albeit apparently one you find too 'risky' for your tastes.

So, don't do what you did last game and keep going, "Hah! You've fallen into my trap! And that trap was a trap! And now you're in that trapped trap! By being trapped!", since that did honestly make it nearly impossible to get a read on anyone.

But that's just the point.
I got several good reads, enough to go 5 of 7 in my D1 post of serious suspicions.
At that same time, all of you got no good reads from my trap-laden trainwreck.
Which is intentional. At the start of the Mafia games, I know I'm Town but I don't know what you are. You could be Town. You could be Mafiate, or Cult, or SK. My goal is to deliberately ensure that you glean as little as possible from actions I take in which I glean as much as possible, and I want to then communicate my true suspicions and my true alignment to other Townies in as incidental a manner as possible.

You said that my post last game made you go, "Wait, huh, he has a point", so I hope you'll follow through on that thought and try to guess in a way that doesn't cast blame on people no matter what they're doing. By your D1 logic last game, you've fallen into a trap, because you went back to being the long-post Snake, after it was pointed out that you weren't making long enough posts! And if you refute that claim, you'll fall into another trap!

This is true!
But the thing is it doesn't matter how many "traps" you or I fall into, what matters is the information we ultimately glean and what we do with it.

For example: I 'caught' IHMN last game in a "trap." But eventually it became clear that A: I wasn't very serious in following through with the "trap," which should have been indication that the entire thing was more a ruse just to spark controversy and activity than a serious attempt to "catch" IHMN at much of anything, and B: the minute it became obvious that IHMN was a pro-Town role restricted to posting pony images, I gave him the opportunity to easily respond by claiming the role and forced everyone off him.

If you take the "traps" too seriously, you're playing the game exactly the way I want you to play it; by my terms, and with less information than what I enjoy regarding my own intentions. So, learn to take them less seriously and roll with the punches. If you fall into one of my "traps" but then it later becomes blatantly clear that you're Town, I'll obviously lay off on you. (...Unless I'm a scum role, in which I probably wouldn't.)

Oh, and rpg: learn to decipher a fucking joke. I didn't properly format the Fenris vote for a reason![/COLOR]

[Sifright]

Just woke up reading through the thread seems to be mostly, D1 jokey lynch votes.

[rpgdemon]

For those interested, from the other game, what I'm referring to:

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

Faulty logic. That's the gambler's fallacy. If, let's say, they both have a 50% chance of being scum, the fact that one isn't scum doesn't mean that the other is, nor does it increase the odds that the other is.


I propose that, until Day 1 is over, we don't listen to Snake. Just ignore him. After that, he can do whatever he wants, we can do whatever we want, but if he wants a Day 1 lynch to himself, or someone else, we shouldn't give it to him. (I'm assuming Jester's win means the town loses? Or is it just a separate win?)

Right now, all he's doing is keeping people from voting properly, and keeping things incredibly disorganized, making it impossible to pin anyone down as scum. Really, from all his ravings, voting has gone haywire, and the scum now have a huge haven to hide with, because of all the double mobius reacharounds and Xanatos Gambits flying everywhere.

If he is really trying to be helpful, then he's suffering from a severe case of fancy play syndrome. It's what happens, for example, in Magic (For those that play the game), when you attack your weak guy into a more powerful blocker, with mana available and cards in hand. Against an opponent who plays well, they might be bluffed into not blocking, as they don't want to risk some sort of trick. Against a new player, they'll block every time, since they don't even consider the combat trick, and they'll laugh at you for playing stupidly.

If he's trying to be helpful, Snake is the guy that attempted a bluff, that the new player was too inexperienced to read. Meaning, whatever he's doing, he's being fancy and neat with it, and it's going way over the heads of the town and actually actively hurting it. The scum now has a huge hive to hide in, and Snake will say anyone who votes AT ALL is scum, since "Nope, I accused them! Hah! I can't believe it! You fell for the trap again! Man! Again! Look, I caught every scum with the same trap four times!"

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

...
...You were doing so relatively decently with your logic in criticizing me, like seriously yours was the first criticism of me that actually made me do a double take and say "...Huh..."

...and then you did this.

(The thing Snake was referring to was, in this case, me voting myself.)

As for the joke, didn't you yourself say that joke-voting and hiding behind jokes was scummy behavior, since a scum can just go, "Lol, it was a joke", when they look bad?

It shows that such things are scummy behavior, when I was actually referring to the things you said ABOVE the Fenris vote, and you shrug it off going, "No! There was a joke!". Ambiguities about voting (Which there are right now, which haven't been cleared up) are good for scum to hide in, and if it turns out your Fenris vote counts and he's lynched, you can go, "Oh, but it was a -joke-!". Or if people vote Fenris, you can go, "I didn't lead the vote, it was a joke! The OTHER people ran with it!".

[BahamutFlare]

I, for one, am all for stirring the pot and seeing what floats and sinks.

In a game with little information, one always needs to be as well informed as possible. Whether the method be by creating chaos or interrogation. I'll admit to be slightly suspicious of Snake for going back to long posts, but overall, I'm more thankful to have activity going on to learn more.

It's really up to you as a player to figure out what is lies and truth in the madness that is created.

Snake, as for you being amazing in every way...Are you amazing at surviving in space? If so, I want your autograph!

[Solid Snake]

Oh for God's sake you seriously think I would, as Scum, allow that vote for Fenris to count at the end of D1 because Fenris dared to playfully insult my record with women

...You're not even trying anymore, RPG.
Also, how is it that you're seriously attempting to argue that my activity in this thread so far has been less productive or less insightful than all the typical D1 joke voting that was happening without me? I wasted time and effort into a post that at least carried some degree of insight into my thoughts regarding players in this game and you think I'm the enemy? It sounds less like you're genuinely interested in achieving the clarity you're arguing for and more like you don't want to encourage critical thinking in D1 because you'd rather let folks skate under the radar.

[rpgdemon]

And if your strategy involves, "Let's intentionally mislead and misdirect the town so that I gather information alone, and then they can rely on me", you may want to rethink it.

Like, you can't make a plan that works operating under the assumption that you're town, since no one can safely make that assumption. I made this same argument against Sif's plan last game, since he was talking about how he didn't need to make a plan that worked if he wasn't a townie, since he knew he's a townie.

Since your plan only works with an operating assumption that you're a townie, and actually actively confuses and sabotages people (By your own admission, that's your intent!), it's definitely reeking of scumminess, or just bad playing. Either way, it is certainly harmful to the town to have you doing this.

##Vote: Snake

I'll move my vote if someone else comes up as a better candidate, but right now you seem a very compelling lynch target.

[rpgdemon]

@The post you just made:

You're the one arguing against critical thinking of your own plans, not me. Heck, you applied this critical thinking last game, and are now throwing out that applied critical thinking suddenly.

And you said, your plan relies on misleading the town, instead of getting everyone thinking and informed. Like, you are literally doing what you're accusing me of.

[rpgdemon]

Anyhow, class tomorrow, I'm off to bed.

[Solid Snake]

"Misleading the Town" is a misrepresentation of my wording. My goal last game was to misrepresent my true intentions in regards to specific "traps" that had comparatively little overarching bearing, to ensure that Scum could not glean an accurate handle on my alignment, role, or intentions, while simultaneously ensuring that information was floated out to enable other Townies to make their own judgments.

You see, at the beginning of any Mafia game, there's an imbalance of knowledge between Town and Scum. Scum, in knowing who their teammates are and who their teammates are not, possess an inherent advantage in information. Scum do not need to glean much information in public because they can communicate privately amongst each other and plan through covert channels. To combat this, I intend to air as much out in the open as possible, and glean information.

Like, right now? Right now, in the context of this conversation we're having. Think about how much information we've already disclosed that other Townies can work with. It's now increasingly unlikely that you and I are scummates, or that Aludrin and I are scummates. In that sense, egging you and Aludrin into miniature confrontations now has value. When I flip, Town's going to learn far more than if I flipped without instigating said dialogues.

This is entirely separate from whatever my personal intentions may be and what I personally am attempting to learn in swapping stories with you, because I personally have an additional benefit (in knowing that I'm Town) and an additional drawback (as a single individual, I do not control lynches.)
But it still has positive value to Town compared to the strategy of joke-voting our way through D1.