One Racist to Rule Them All

[Mashirosen]

Discussion of the potential Hobbit movie isn't germane to this topic -- please either start a thread for it in General or take it to e-mail.

Tolkien was born in South Africa, he was never "deployed" there. Born in Bloemfontien in 1892, he only lived there until he was three, when with his brother and mother he moved to Birmingham, England. He did serve in WWI, as a second lieutenant in the 11th Lancashire Fusiliers, and in fact saw action in the Battle of the Somme. Which is considerably further north on the world map than, say, Tanzania, and is in fact in France. (Sam Gamgee is by Tolkien's own admission largely based on the lower-class "grunts" who served in the trenches alongside him, whom he "recognized as so far superior to myself".)

An argument against Tolkien's "racism" lies in an incident that happened in the early 1930s, when German publishers interested in translating and printing the Hobbit for German audiences contacted Tolkien, asking if he was Aryan. His sneering reply:

" .... I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is, Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."

Tolkien, as a lifelong devotee of ancient Nordic culture, hated the Nazis. In 1938 he was vocal about his disgust for their "wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine", and in 1941 he wrote to his son Michael (who was training as a cadet in the British army):

" .... I have in this War a burning private grudge — which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler .... Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble, northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light."

So while this obviously doesn't prove that Tolkien never held anything like what we would currently consider a racist attitude, it certainly shows that he was never a subscriber to anything like Nazi ideology regarding race -- it seems likely to me that he might even have rejected some of his own previous racial prejudices to distance himself further from them.

Well done Mashirosen. Tolkien portrayed the enemy as "dark" and the good guys as "light" because the book is about the classic fight between good and evil. NOT about some racial issue. I hate all those people who try and turn anything even slightly contraversial into a racial issue. If you have nothing else to do besides whine and complain about something that happened to your grandfather's grandfather, then just dont post. No one did anything to you, so just shut up.

well, technically:

generaly in places like that people evolve white, you know?
dark skin is a natural advantage toward the equator, where sunlight is strongest, but in a middle earth (eurpoean) setting there is no benefit so that mutation is not favored by natural selection

the undead, having rotted several times, generally have very little skin
the darkness is from rotting muscle mass thats either exposed or showing through the rotted skin

conclusion:
no racism

[Lycanthrope]

Southrons were not from Middle Earth. They were from a different continent, south of middle earth.

Edit: This continent was named Harad, for anyone who cares.

[Apletto]

Originally Posted by Croteam6

Tolkien's work was heavily influenced by Norse mythology.

With his interest in mythology, it seems unlikely to me that Tolkien was in any way attempting to parallel his writings to any particular event. I think he used his many influences, (Norse mythology most of all), and simply crafted an interesting story.

Technically his work was heavily influenced by Old English mythology and writing, which is almost identical to Norse, because they were originally Norse. So when he wanted to write a 'British Mythology' he delved into the mythological heritage of Britain in Old English and Icelandic writings.

As to paralleling any real event. It doesn't. He said so. He wrote essays saying so. These essays said that myth or 'fairy stories' were stories that were true even though they never happened(like 2+2=4 or more closely the Tortoise and the Hair). He was trying, in writing a myth, to convey 'Truth' as he knew it. Much as the Tortoise and the Hair conveys a moral, Tolkien tried to convey an entire worldview by creating an entire world, creation to end.

It was an almost subtle way of conveying what he believed to others in a form that people would excep and enjoy. That's why he spent the rest of his life after starting it trying to make it all consistent and 'right'(in his eyes).