Infraction Bullshit

[Archbio]

Look I think it's been pretty well established that we have trouble with this whole hindsight thing without you rubbing it in.

And foresight!

[Meister]

And vocabulary!

[Mesden]

Originally Posted by Meister

Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago.

Originally Posted by Meister

Whoa, hold on. Says who?

Well I'd say the rules do since there's that corollary that says you guys have free right to ban someone after one post if the post is bad enough.

Leeway only goes so far. If a thread has a more-or-less specific topic and veers a little off that topic by natural progression of the conversation, sure, whatever, but someone waltzing in and declaring the topic to be something entirely else from this point on doesn't fly, and if I've let that slide in the younger past please point me to it so I can have another look.

You know what that is a reasonable way to run things in theory and I totally feel you here, but I will explain why this has caused a problem in just a second. Just want you to know I get where you're coming from and this is by no means me going "God fuck you Meister you suck," so much as pure critique.

Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.

Okay look I didn't want to bring this up, but here's the real problem.

This forum spent three years with the same guy doing pretty much all of the moderation work. It's pretty hard to change back from that, especially when the transition is completely crap (The booting Fifth thread was a catastrophe, the straw on the camel's back has finally proved a complete catastrophe, your resignation and unresignation, lots of stuff). He was a lot less heavy handed and a lot more apologetic when people disagreed with his moderatory decision, despite being an over reactive jerk who didn't like criticism(Sorry fifth!).

Maybe the moderation by community things he sometimes did was something you disagreed with and was one of the many reasons you got rid of him. I don't know and I don't particularly care too much, but it's different.

Basically what happened is we had some old dictators who everyone liked. Then they passed the torch onto a guy who we all loved even more and did stuff we loved. He gets kicked out of office by the old dictators for doing something we love and the old guard proceeds to do what they used to do, but that's not what we want anymore because three years is a long time.

He was overall a lot more community friendly than you guys have been, as proven by this quoted up post, and most forumers loved it -- and I guess it's pretty obvious that very few are fond of the old/new management. If you're okay with that then whatevs, but the reason everyone is upset seems to go over your head. It's not so much that fifth is gone, moreso that the moderation has become vastly different to what we're accustomed and, hell, can't blame the community for not liking a less community friendly moderation team to a more community friendly one.

[BitVyper]

I just wanna thank you guys for always doing these things while I'm at work or in bed.

Edit: I'd say more, but I basically agree with everything Mesden said.

[rpgdemon]

A random side note: Yes, the mods do have right to do whatever they like, but it's worth mentioning that the community is the only reason the forum works in the first place. If the community does all decide, "Hey, we don't like this", it's not as if they're forced to stay around, which does sort of incentivize doing things that the community as a whole likes.

I mean, sure, you can have a forum that's all, "We're the mods and we do what we want because we're mods, suck it.", but who's going to go there?

I guess what I'm saying is that in a situation where the community as a whole thinks one way, versus a mod thinking the other way, it's worth considering a revision of the rules. I actually didn't read the thread in question, so I've got no idea if this is an accurate representation of the facts, but hey. Since when has a lack of knowledge stopped anyone from opening their mouth? :P

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

I mean, sure, you can have a forum that's all, "We're the mods and we do what we want because we're mods, suck it.", but who's going to go there?

Who, indeed?

Because that's basically exactly what the moderators* are doing.

Originally Posted by shiney

Personally I'd rather be wrong about a person, and ultimately ban them legitimately, then be right but have banned them before they did something deserving.

Fifth gave Nightshade a two-week ban, BTW.

I mean I know he got "Banned" therefore Fifthfiend made a horrible judgement call but he basically said "You've done a lot of shit against the rules so I'm going to give you a temporary ban to make you understand you're making serious infractions." Oh god the horror.

Originally Posted by shiney

Push me into a corner and try and make me look like a fucker all you want, I'm more than happy to take on that role now, because I've finally reached the end of my patience with you.

It's kind of hard to look any worse than you already do for pretty much blatantly saying "We made a mistake, I'm sorry about our mistake, but we're sticking to it anyway cause we said so." The passive-aggressive way you 'apologize' and threaten to ban him for being petty isn't helping considering you could have been more upfront and not brought all of this on yourself.

This whole thing just got spurned up again because plenty of people (by which I mean not just Fifth) are pretty sore about it.

Originally Posted by Meister

Frankly, tough, because this forum's moderation has never been run by community committee.

Yeah well I can't help but notice that you had this community's best interests at heart when you kicked Fifthfiend off, or am I mistaken somehow?

Originally Posted by Meister

Yeah, dude seriously turned out to be the single worst person in the world to spark BIG MOD DRAMA over and all said, we really should have banned him two or three infractions ago.

But guys, on the one hand there's the point that we should give people more of an advance warning before we even infract them, and on the other hand there's the point that we should have banned Nightshine more or less immediately after he turned up; I know they're different situations and I'm not trying to say or convince anyone they're the same, but it still kinda sends mixed signals.

Meister, just be totally honest. You didn't even really care about Nightshade or "The Community" or whatever the hell this bullshit even is anymore. You never even did.

This entire fiasco is just your excuse to kick Fifthfiend in the balls, over and over.


*Shiney and Meister

[Ecks]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

I just wanna thank you guys for always doing these things while I'm at work or in bed.

Edit: I'd say more, but I basically agree with everything Mesden said.

Ditto. Granted, I'm never present for the shitstorms, whenever they occur, and frankly I'm glad for that.

However, I do feel bad that I can't be here to help everyone else douse the fire, so to speak. I do like Fifth. I remember (vaguely) when he was mod, and the forumites seemed to get along pretty well, barring the odd douche who'd get called on his bullshit and booted out. And I *DO* remember that Fifth had a tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, but he also, as others have stated, tended to ask around and realize that maybe, y'know, he came off as a tad too severe.

I'm not saying I hate the direction the rest of you guys are taking with moderation. Nor am I saying that this direction is inherently a bad thing; but as others have posted, the community at large is used to one style of moderation, so don't be surprised when you guys do your thing and more than a couple of people get pissed.

As for the infraction thing, maybe it's because all I've ever been hit for is double posting (which I correct almost as soon as I do it nowadays), maybe I just came in too late to remember when having an infraction was 'OMFG THIS SUCKS MY RECORD IS TARNISHED FOREVER!' bad. If you guys want to make "+1 infraction" the new "seriously guise, don't do that," then okay. So long as you're just making this part of a new and/or getting-back-to-old direction, and that this is a step in reigning in some vastly overlooked minor rulebreaking, that sounds great to me. Not that, as you guys have said, my opinion, y'know, MATTERS.

[Jagos]

Maybe I'm new to the situation but damn...

What the hell is with everyone today? Usually, we're all happy go lucky with people running rampant and vibrant and just today, it's as if I've logged into a new forums completely!

I believe Krylo had the best advice of anyone. If you're angry and upset about any decision you're about to make, go out. Smoke some weed, hit the gym, eat, fart, go to the bathroom, do something but don't post here with your emotional baggage right next to you!

I just now saw fifth getting banned. I dunno what's going on. Maybe he was mad about things around here. Maybe everyone could have handled this a lot better. I haven't felt all of the community changes that people are noting. Then again, unless it's a new game or an amusing picture I just watch the fireworks. I just think that maybe, just maybe, it's getting a little too much for no damn reason.

[Osterbaum]

Basically I think that all parties involved could have handled some things better. But hell if I get to be all holier-than-thou just because I haven't gotten involved too much.

[Ecks]

Originally Posted by Jagos

Maybe I'm new to the situation but damn...

What the hell is with everyone today? Usually, we're all happy go lucky with people running rampant and vibrant and just today, it's as if I've logged into a new forums completely!

I believe Krylo had the best advice of anyone. If you're angry and upset about any decision you're about to make, go out. Smoke some weed, hit the gym, eat, fart, go to the bathroom, do something but don't post here with your emotional baggage right next to you!

I just now saw fifth getting banned. I dunno what's going on. Maybe he was mad about things around here. Maybe everyone could have handled this a lot better. I haven't felt all of the community changes that people are noting. Then again, unless it's a new game or an amusing picture I just watch the fireworks. I just think that maybe, just maybe, it's getting a little too much for no damn reason.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking Fifth is still incredibly asshurt about getting demoted, and despite him having a completely valid reason for being pissed, he's been going ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH with Meister and shiney ever since. And in a situation where "This forum ain't big enough for the three of us" and two of the parties involved are mods and one is not... yeah, Fifth had to go bye-bye. I don't like it, but I'm being realistic about this.