Gay Marriage leads to Animal Marriage??? - Page 6

Trev-MUN Hates AOL · 06-21-2004, 11:37 AM

Just one other thing... someone here said that marriage should be taken out of the hands of religion - marriage is a religious ceremony, an institution. It was born in religion. It has a religious context. This is what I understand it to be. Someone else is welcome to poke me in the eye with a cotton candy spear if I'm just BSing and I have no clue as to how marriage ceremonies began.

I support the whole redefining unions as it is stated in law so that there is no angsting over gay/straight/animal marriage rights - removing the religious context within the law itself, see. Like I said earlier, I think that makes it equal to anyone, giving benefits regardless of the type of union it is - even if it's just a union in law without any religious marriage having happened.

... I don't think I'm making sense. Am I making sense?

Archbio · 06-21-2004, 01:48 PM

It wasn't born in religion. I know I said this before, and it's the only thing I'm going to repeat (in case I'm not supposed to be posting in this).

Marriage in medieval Europe was gradually associated with religion from the IXth century and it was totally absorbed into the church by the XIIth century. That's when the church was trying to include all aspects of life and society into itself (I think that's when they also tried to be more inclusive toward women too). That's when the sacrament of matrimony was invented. I'm just going by memory, but I think that's pretty much it: in Europe, marriage existed as a legal, civil institution from the Justinian Code in the VIth century, in the roman empire, to the XIIth century, in the middle-ages. Before the Justinian Code the tradition was there but not as tightly regulated. And that's where we got it from.

MasterOfMagic · 06-21-2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osterbaum

I wasn't being one sided. I always try to consider the other points of view, but right now I dissagree with most of them. Just what church do you belong to? Just asking out of interest.

Didn't mean you in particular, meant the thread as a whole.

I'm Methodist, which is why I've heard this alot in Sunday School. We'll probably have a schism b/c of this debate. Plus my teacher likes discussing things happening in the news alot.

Trev-MUN Hates AOL · 06-21-2004, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archbio

It wasn't born in religion. I know I said this before, and it's the only thing I'm going to repeat (in case I'm not supposed to be posting in this).

Marriage in medieval Europe was gradually associated with religion from the IXth century and it was totally absorbed into the church by the XIIth century. That's when the church was trying to include all aspects of life and society into itself (I think that's when they also tried to be more inclusive toward women too). That's when the sacrament of matrimony was invented. I'm just going by memory, but I think that's pretty much it: in Europe, marriage existed as a legal, civil institution from the Justinian Code in the VIth century, in the roman empire, to the XIIth century, in the middle-ages. Before the Justinian Code the tradition was there but not as tightly regulated. And that's where we got it from.

... Oh.

Well, then! Pardon me, I need to go find a rock to plant my face in. I have made a complete dumbface out of myself

.

(Though I wonder if marriage was a part of other religions ... ? Hey, whoever mentioned Hinduism, could you clear that up? )

Lucas · 06-24-2004, 12:52 AM

Sorry for the late reply, but i've been busy.

My main argument wasn't actually in your abstract krylo, because i didn't have an argument. in fact, i said i don't care if homosexuals marry, so your entire "this is a yes or no" thing is bunk; i said yes. i pointed out that religion shouldn't be the focus of these debates, since there's better fodder to cover, and that marrying animals isn't evil. you stated that not only christianity has marriage as a counterpoint to... something, and that's pretty much my point: marriage in other cultures allows people/animal marriages.

example: a 6 year old girl in india was wedded last year to ward off bad karma because of certain hindu-pop culture traditions. not only was she 6, but the groom was a dog. i mentioned this before.

so why is animal marriage wrong? no one's actually answered that.

Atronflame · 06-24-2004, 02:14 AM

Did they kiss? Oh god, please tell me the 6 year old girl did not kiss the dog.

MasterOfMagic · 06-24-2004, 06:25 PM

Think about it Lucas, a human. Marrying an animal. *shudders* Just b/c someone has done it doesn't make it right. Anyway, we can't prove that it is wrong, all we can do is go with what our conscience (or lack of one) tells us. So, this entire argument is pointless.

Lockeownzj00 · 06-24-2004, 06:50 PM

I don't think Lucas is a furry and I don't think any of us would normally want to marry an animal. But please explain why it is wrong. This is ultimate neutrality. If you want to make a point, think about why you are.

As lucas said, there has so far been no reason stated why marrying animals is wrong or evil. I think it is simply the way our society's traditions have a hold of you.

Mashirosen · 06-24-2004, 07:45 PM

It's wrong because an animal is incapable of giving informed consent to any kind of sexual/romantic relationship, and even if they were, there's no way for them to clearly communicate it to us. It's like having sex with a severely retarded person -- it may not exactly be rape, but it's not that far off from it either. (Please, surprise me by not responding with "OMG WAT IF U HOOKED A DOG UP 2 A MACINE TAHT WUD LETTED IT TALK".) Which leads to the question of why exactly a person would seek out that kind of encounter or relationship instead of one with an equal in the first place.

Lockeownzj00 · 06-24-2004, 08:08 PM

Hey, not that I'd do it, I just think people are jumping the gun; it's the same reason the initial reaction to gay marriage is "EW!" I was just trying to look at it more abstractly.

06-21-2004, 11:37 AM	#51
Trev-MUN Hates AOL 'Net Wanderer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A land of red tape, duct tape, and deadly throwing stars Posts: 211	Just one other thing... someone here said that marriage should be taken out of the hands of religion - marriage is a religious ceremony, an institution. It was born in religion. It has a religious context. This is what I understand it to be. Someone else is welcome to poke me in the eye with a cotton candy spear if I'm just BSing and I have no clue as to how marriage ceremonies began. I support the whole redefining unions as it is stated in law so that there is no angsting over gay/straight/animal marriage rights - removing the religious context within the law itself, see. Like I said earlier, I think that makes it equal to anyone, giving benefits regardless of the type of union it is - even if it's just a union in law without any religious marriage having happened. ... I don't think I'm making sense. Am I making sense? __________________ Looks like I'll be using this account indefnitely, until AOL decides to unblock nuklearpower.com. Sites of Interest: Ragnarok Wisdom The Legend of Key-Fu Ad Ultimum.net Main Page The Thought Transistor Last edited by Trev-MUN Hates AOL; 06-21-2004 at 11:40 AM.

06-24-2004, 02:14 AM	#56
Atronflame Addicted to NWN Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Somewhere. Posts: 652	Did they kiss? Oh god, please tell me the 6 year old girl did not kiss the dog. __________________ Havent been here in a long long long long long time.

06-24-2004, 07:45 PM	#59
Mashirosen Watch closely! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Imaginary tomorrowland Posts: 1,855	It's wrong because an animal is incapable of giving informed consent to any kind of sexual/romantic relationship, and even if they were, there's no way for them to clearly communicate it to us. It's like having sex with a severely retarded person -- it may not exactly be rape, but it's not that far off from it either. (Please, surprise me by not responding with "OMG WAT IF U HOOKED A DOG UP 2 A MACINE TAHT WUD LETTED IT TALK".) Which leads to the question of why exactly a person would seek out that kind of encounter or relationship instead of one with an equal in the first place. __________________ "Remember how we all thought the Jedi were, well, Space Knights of the Round Table? Well, as it turns out, they're a bunch of self-righteous virgins who kidnap kids to replenish their numbers."

06-21-2004, 01:48 PM	#52
Archbio Data is Turned On Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,980	It wasn't born in religion. I know I said this before, and it's the only thing I'm going to repeat (in case I'm not supposed to be posting in this). Marriage in medieval Europe was gradually associated with religion from the IXth century and it was totally absorbed into the church by the XIIth century. That's when the church was trying to include all aspects of life and society into itself (I think that's when they also tried to be more inclusive toward women too). That's when the sacrament of matrimony was invented. I'm just going by memory, but I think that's pretty much it: in Europe, marriage existed as a legal, civil institution from the Justinian Code in the VIth century, in the roman empire, to the XIIth century, in the middle-ages. Before the Justinian Code the tradition was there but not as tightly regulated. And that's where we got it from.

06-24-2004, 12:52 AM	#55
Lucas Shotokan Master Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 529	Sorry for the late reply, but i've been busy. My main argument wasn't actually in your abstract krylo, because i didn't have an argument. in fact, i said i don't care if homosexuals marry, so your entire "this is a yes or no" thing is bunk; i said yes. i pointed out that religion shouldn't be the focus of these debates, since there's better fodder to cover, and that marrying animals isn't evil. you stated that not only christianity has marriage as a counterpoint to... something, and that's pretty much my point: marriage in other cultures allows people/animal marriages. example: a 6 year old girl in india was wedded last year to ward off bad karma because of certain hindu-pop culture traditions. not only was she 6, but the groom was a dog. i mentioned this before. so why is animal marriage wrong? no one's actually answered that.

06-24-2004, 06:25 PM	#57
MasterOfMagic ahahah Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,456	Think about it Lucas, a human. Marrying an animal. shudders Just b/c someone has done it doesn't make it right. Anyway, we can't prove that it is wrong, all we can do is go with what our conscience (or lack of one) tells us. So, this entire argument is pointless.