OH GOD BIOWARE WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONE - Page 65

Osterbaum · 03-06-2012, 10:46 AM

Liz, please explain. I dont consider myself transphobic, but I must admidt my knowledge of the subject is limited. I certainly do not wish to be transphobic, so please educate me.

e: now if the whole thing isnt true then I dont know, I just took Ryongs word for it since I assumed he has played the game; obviously I havent played the game yet myself

Ryong · 03-06-2012, 10:48 AM

On the basis that this is true:

Transphobia =/= retcon of a tomboy female into a transexual accompanied by a visual - and possibly personality, heck if I know - change to fit with "standard" male sexual standards.

Kim · 03-06-2012, 10:59 AM

Transphobia would include the combination of complaining about a character being trans, complaining that the trans character doesn't look masculine enough, saying the character "used to be a man," and calling the decision to be trans inclusive "weird."

@Oster: Was referring to Ryong, not you.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 03-06-2012, 11:15 AM

Didn't he say it was weird that the only strong female has been revealed to have physically male at an earlier stage in her life? That is that it's not weird because there's a transsexual character but that it's Ashley of all people. I don't mind Ashley being anything. But if it was true, don't you think they could have introduced a strong, interesting character without having to use Ashley, who is, among other things a self professed Christian?

I don't really think it and of itself is a "weird" thing. Ashley or any other character can be whoever they want. But from my perspective there's a distinct conflict of character for Ashley specifically because of her religious beliefs.

Kim · 03-06-2012, 11:21 AM

1. This is the future. If you seriously think Christian value are going to be the same a couple centuries into the future, you bein' ridic.

2. If you don't think there are trans Christians, you bein' ridic.

Ryong · 03-06-2012, 11:21 AM

I'd appreciate if you stopped putting words in my mouth and misinterpretating every point I make.

Ashley on ME1 was a generic army woman. She had strong anti-alien beliefs and was vaguely traditionalist, if I remember correctly. She was also very headstrong and rather no-nonsense. That was good writing.

If you saved her, there was sudden sexual tension. That was not.

Now she got a complete makeover, which everyone has already made their points clear on it not making a whole lot of sense. That was weird.

If she's also a transexual, why is it important now that she looks like a bimbo? Why wasn't it important before and why does it matter now?

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 03-06-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz

1. This is the future. If you seriously think Christian value are going to be the same a couple centuries into the future, you bein' ridic.

2. If you don't think there are trans Christians, you bein' ridic.

Neither of us knows what Christian dogma is in Mass effect. Certainly not for whatever particular church Ashley belongs to. I don't think the assumption I'm suggesting is any more or less redic than any other we can make about it.

I don't think there are none, but I would expect those that do follow a form of. Christian dogma while also being transsexual would be more open minded than Ashley is demonstrated to be.

Kim · 03-06-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Neither of us knows what Christian dogma is in Mass effect. Certainly not for whatever particular church Ashley belongs to. I don't think the assumption I'm suggesting is any more or less redic than any other we can make about it.

I want you to look back at what Christian dogma was in 1812. Now, it's still pretty atrocious today, but not nearly as atrocious as it was then. So, I think it is fairly reasonable to assume it will not be nearly as atrocious two hundred years from now as it is today.

Quote:

If she's also a transexual, why is it important now that she looks like a bimbo? Why wasn't it important before and why does it matter now?

Were she a trans woman, Ashley's change in appearance would be assumed to be out of a desire to better present as a woman.

Karrrrrrrrrrrresche · 03-06-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz

I want you to look back at what Christian dogma was in 1812. Now, it's still pretty atrocious today, but not nearly as atrocious as it was then. So, I think it is fairly reasonable to assume it will not be nearly as atrocious two hundred years from now as i.

Many things have changed, many things are the same. At that many people believe exactly what they would have two hundred years ago but can't express it because society has changed. Ashley explains In me1 that shes hesitant to express her beliefs for that reason.

Ryong · 03-06-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz

Were she a trans woman, Ashley's change in appearance would be assumed to be out of a desire to better present as a woman.

The middle of a gigantic space war seems to be the best time for a character who can handle stress incredibly well to have an identity crisis.

03-06-2012, 10:46 AM	#641
Osterbaum The revolution will be memed! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: FIN Posts: 5,967	Liz, please explain. I dont consider myself transphobic, but I must admidt my knowledge of the subject is limited. I certainly do not wish to be transphobic, so please educate me. e: now if the whole thing isnt true then I dont know, I just took Ryongs word for it since I assumed he has played the game; obviously I havent played the game yet myself __________________ D is for Dirty Commie! Last edited by Osterbaum; 03-06-2012 at 10:59 AM.

03-06-2012, 10:59 AM	#643
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	Transphobia would include the combination of complaining about a character being trans, complaining that the trans character doesn't look masculine enough, saying the character "used to be a man," and calling the decision to be trans inclusive "weird." @Oster: Was referring to Ryong, not you. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

03-06-2012, 11:21 AM	#645
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	1. This is the future. If you seriously think Christian value are going to be the same a couple centuries into the future, you bein' ridic. 2. If you don't think there are trans Christians, you bein' ridic. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

03-06-2012, 10:48 AM	#642
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	On the basis that this is true: Transphobia =/= retcon of a tomboy female into a transexual accompanied by a visual - and possibly personality, heck if I know - change to fit with "standard" male sexual standards.

03-06-2012, 11:21 AM	#646
Ryong Professional Threadkiller Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 3,798	I'd appreciate if you stopped putting words in my mouth and misinterpretating every point I make. Ashley on ME1 was a generic army woman. She had strong anti-alien beliefs and was vaguely traditionalist, if I remember correctly. She was also very headstrong and rather no-nonsense. That was good writing. If you saved her, there was sudden sexual tension. That was not. Now she got a complete makeover, which everyone has already made their points clear on it not making a whole lot of sense. That was weird. If she's also a transexual, why is it important now that she looks like a bimbo? Why wasn't it important before and why does it matter now?