wait, CAN a Lightsaber deflect magic missiles?

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

Or, as has been discussed in this thread, the lightsaber could count as an extension of the jedi, and the missile could be stopped with the force, BLAH BLAH BLAHDITTY BLAH.

I REJECT your reality, and substitue my own! :p

[/mythbuster]

[Dino_Hunter]

I think it might depend upon the abilities of a jedi. The more advanced Jedi such as yoda, are incredably agile, but I'm still not sure if agility could out do magic.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

It all depends on your definition as magic. Is Magic the same as the force. Or is it of different power. Or is the Force just some super advanced Magic

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Or is the Force just some super advanced Magic

Considering what advanced Jedi and advanced Wizards do on a regular basis, the Force is more like proto-magic.

It barely even deserves magic status.

Edit: And while I'm here...

Originally Posted by 42PETUNIAS

the lightsaber could count as an extension of the jedi

Since we're talkin' DnD, a weapon is not an extention of the target. It is a separate, albeit attended, object which makes its own saves and, if attacked, requires an entirely separate procedure.

[Yellow Mage]

Some of them even have thier own personalities.

[Krylo]

You people are crazy.

A magic missile will not stop and dart around like a crazed chipmunk trying to evade a parry, or dart around behind someone.

Point of fact: Shield spell stops magic missile.

Shield spell is NOT a dome of energy.

Shield spell is a disc of energy which moves to intercept attacks.

The shield spell can move to intercept the magic missile without the magic missile dodging around the shield spell.

THUS, the magic missile can not perfectly evade parries.

FURTHER: Assuming that a magic missile would hover around darting at something from different angles until it found a way in, a perfect dome of force would not stop a magic missile either.

Assuming this version of the magic missile the magic projectile would fly forever around the protective dome, seeking, seeking, seeking an opening until the dome was dispelled or otherwise eliminated.

The magic missile is merely perfectly accurate. Much like Robin Hood, the quintessential perfect archer, will never miss his mark, so neither will the magic missile. HOWEVER, if someone were to interpose an object between the arrow/missile, and its target, despite its perfect accuracy, the attack would never come to fruition.

The magic missile never misses. This does not mean that it can not be stopped.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Originally Posted by krylo

The magic missile never misses. This does not mean that it can not be stopped.

The weird thing is, though, that an ACTUAL TOWER SHIELD will not, in any sense, ever help you against a magic missile.

So it could resolve itself something like a ray-type spell, and hit the tower shield just fine -- only it would still damage the holder.

Which opens up a third possibility: that the magic missile strikes the lightsaber normally, and then still injures the wielder through some kind of shockwave.

There's another concievable option where armor and normal tower shields don't prevent the magic missiles' damage because the spell merely passes through them. Meaning it may hit the lightsaber, and then pass through unimpeded, since a lightsaber is not a wall of pure, refined force.

I mean, one could argue that a force push is such a wall, but one could also say that that whole area is more like the spell Telekinesis, which does not utilize pure, refined force.

Of course, this kinda' makes sense, since the DnD [Force] descriptor refers to the power behind a punch, not the punch itself. Or the 'equal and opposite' reaction of a wall, but not the wall itself. Everything a lightsaber has ever deflected has some physical component -- [Force] in DnD has no physical component; it's not even 'energy'... at least, not in the photon sense. Whereas things like Fireball and Lightning Bolt pretty explicitly are.

[DeviousToast]

Originally Posted by The Kneumatic Pnight

Of course, this kinda' makes sense, since the DnD [Force] descriptor refers to the power behind a punch, not the punch itself. Or the 'equal and opposite' reaction of a wall, but not the wall itself. Everything a lightsaber has ever deflected has some physical component -- [Force] in DnD has no physical component; it's not even 'energy'... at least, not in the photon sense. Whereas things like Fireball and Lightning Bolt pretty explicitly are.

So what about a magic missile actually causes damage? Because from my reading of that, Kneumatic, the missile wouldn't have any way to interact with the world. If it is pure force, with no physical component... then what is causing damage? If it can pass through tower shields and armor unharmed, hitting the target for however many d4 of damage, why are they things it passes through not damaged as well?

Also, there are some rules about tower shield used where it gives cover, yes? IIRC you have to see what you're magic missiling, even if you're looking through a keyhole or using a "see through walls" spell, you still have to have visual contact. So a tower shield could be of some use, if you used it as a cower shield.

[The Kneumatic Pnight]

Originally Posted by DeviousToast

So what about a magic missile actually causes damage? Because from my reading of that, Kneumatic, the missile wouldn't have any way to interact with the world. If it is pure force, with no physical component... then what is causing damage? If it can pass through tower shields and armor unharmed, hitting the target for however many d4 of damage, why are they things it passes through not damaged as well?

Magic.

Originally Posted by DeviousToast

Also, there are some rules about tower shield used where it gives cover, yes? IIRC you have to see what you're magic missiling, even if you're looking through a keyhole or using a "see through walls" spell, you still have to have visual contact. So a tower shield could be of some use, if you used it as a cower shield.

I feel this is kinda' a weak point, since total cover only helps in this case because you break line of effect, so the tower shield is performing no better job than a giant piece of paper.

Edit: To clarify, it seems more an impediment to actually casting the spell, rather than the spells own follow through.

[DeviousToast]

If you're defining the damage as "magic" then why give it a subtype at all? [Force] just seems, for the most part, kind of a cop-out damage type that indicates the magic will follow certain rules, but not really.