Don't Ask; Don't Tell Repeal Blocked

[Kim]

I like how people act as though if DADT is repealed some sort of psychic wave will go out notifying everyone of your sexual preference. If they don't feel safe being open, they won't be. Will some use the repeal of DADT as an excuse to try to find out the orientation of those in the army? Yes, but they're doing that already. People who do get discharged/harassed will be able to take legal action and continue the progress we're slowly making. However, the first step is getting rid of DADT, because it's an entire policy built around pretending there aren't gays in the military.

EDIT: Also, what shiney said. I thought I'd heard something about just that, but I couldn't find a source, so I didn't bring it up.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by NonCon

I like how people act as though if DADT is repealed some sort of psychic wave will go out notifying everyone of your sexual preference. If they don't feel safe being open, they won't be. Will some use the repeal of DADT as an excuse to try to find out the orientation of those in the army? Yes, but they're doing that already. People who do get discharged/harassed will be able to take legal action and continue the progress we're slowly making. However, the first step is getting rid of DADT, because it's an entire policy built around pretending there aren't gays in the military.

EDIT: Also, what shiney said. I thought I'd heard something about just that, but I couldn't find a source, so I didn't bring it up.

I'd argue changing the military law making homosexuality illegal needs to go down first or at the same time, myself. At least for a smoother transition. Obviously, DADT can go down and then we can get all sorts of cases in to tear down the rest, but I think it's less pain and heartache if we can avoid all that.

Unless that's what the Legalese in shiney's post refers to already having officially happened.

[Kim]

The legalese says they can't kick anyone out or investigate someone for being gay/to find out if they are according to the other military regulations either.

[bluestarultor]

Fair enough. I'll admit I'm not exactly in top mental form right now, so I'll re-read for comprehension of what's going on a bit later.


Edit: So hey, actually did some reading. Turns out that instating policy on the military is a Legislative matter after all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article...merated_powers

A look through the Judicial, Executive, and Amendments sections says absolutely nothing about any of them being able to affect military law.

[Nikose Tyris]

Edit: To update Blues:

Judicial courts may only affect military law if it's regarding constitutional rights.

DADT still needs to be proven to apply to Constitutional Rights. Queer rights are not something written in, in plain lettering yet. Until it's a universal constitutional thing, It's not something that can be affected.

Section 14 seems to state that discrimination on sexual preference is OK; But the US system is a living one that changes based on individual judge interpretation.

[Kim]

So, for everyone saying Obama's actually blocking the end of this law he swore he'd end because he really cares about the gay community, that is not the reason he is blocking the end of the law. He's blocking it because, even though it can be shut down via unconstitutionality ruling or injunction (thus the fact that they actually have to fight this decision and are fighting it via stays and appeals), he wants congress to be the ones to appeal it. He doesn't say it can't be done this way. He just says he doesn't want it done this way. That makes sense... except it doesn't. That is quite honestly his only excuse at this time. It's the same justification he used to defend his Department of Justice defending DOMA.

TL;DR - Obama is full of shit.

[shiney]

Yep. He is sworn to uphold "the law of the land" but he has an option here to allow that law to expire via judicial process and instead of that he's counting on congressional repubs to suddenly forget their second biggest wedge issue of "Hate on gays" and vote to end discrimination in the military.

People voted for him to push the agenda he touted endlessly in campaign mode. He got elected and suddenly he's another center-right politician who endlessly fosters compromise by abandoning the very principles which made him electable to begin with.

He'll still be better than whatever trash is vomited up by the GOP in 2011, but goddamned if I don't wish Hillary had won the primaries now. At least she wasn't afraid to stick up for what she wanted.

(Plus it's less socially acceptable to be a veiled misogynist than it is to be a veiled racist, for whatever reason.)

[Kim]

Pretty much. Another concern of mine is that the Democrats won't have quite the hold they currently do on the legislative branch, so then when they supposedly "try really hard" to pass these policies, they won't be able to because they won't have the strength in numbers they did before. When they actually "try", in finger quotes because I'm not sure I trust them to actually try, it'll be too late, and when people like me cuss them out, we'll be blamed for being so critical of them just because they didn't do a damn thing they promised. It's a tad infuriating.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by NonCon

So, for everyone saying Obama's actually blocking the end of this law he swore he'd end because he really cares about the gay community, that is not the reason he is blocking the end of the law. He's blocking it because, even though it can be shut down via unconstitutionality ruling or injunction (thus the fact that they actually have to fight this decision and are fighting it via stays and appeals), he wants congress to be the ones to appeal it. He doesn't say it can't be done this way. He just says he doesn't want it done this way. That makes sense... except it doesn't. That is quite honestly his only excuse at this time. It's the same justification he used to defend his Department of Justice defending DOMA.

TL;DR - Obama is full of shit.

Obama loves telling everyone how he has to play by Maruis of Queensbury rules against opponents who climb into the ring with a broken bottle and a club with a nail through it because it distracts people from noticing that he's just plain-ass taking a dive.

[Kim]

That is the most apt analogy I have heard regarding this scenario.