Filler? I don't even know 'er! aka the fuck-Bleach [SPOILERS] megathread!

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Grimpond

'Sup, Grimps?

[Lithp]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

The best, Lithp, you're the best.

Less obliquely, you're using a concept that cautions against making new assumptions, but dead characters not being dead isn't a new assumption, it's the existing, standard operating assumption for everything involving Bleach. A new assumption would be what you're arguing; that popular hero characters who currently appear to be dead are in fact dead. Dead characters in Bleach (who aren't mooks) are always alive, therefore Occam's Razor says that dead characters in Bleach will continue to be alive.

Putting it another way, other people are saying that Tite Kubo is going to continue to write stories the way Tite Kubo writes stories, on the basis that this is how Tite Kubo writes stories. You're the one introducing the new assumption that Tite Kubo will stop writing stories the way Tite Kubo writes stories and begin writing them an entirely different way. You're using Occam's Razor to argue that the sun is going to stop coming up in the morning, on the basis that we can't assume the sun will keep coming up just because it's consistently done so for hundreds of millions of years.

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Lithp

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

Okay, lets try this a different way Lithp.
You have, at a guess lets say three, or four people here telling you you are wrong.

You are saying we are wrong.
Occam's razor says that we're right, because you being correct requires multiple incorrect marks from us, meanwhile we only need one from you.

[Wigmund]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Less obliquely, you're using a concept that cautions against making new assumptions, but dead characters not being dead isn't a new assumption, it's the existing, standard operating assumption for everything involving Bleach. A new assumption would be what you're arguing; that popular hero characters who currently appear to be dead are in fact dead. Dead characters in Bleach (who aren't mooks) are always alive, therefore Occam's Razor says that dead characters in Bleach will continue to be alive.

Current theory: They're all hiding in Rangiku's cleavage, that's why she left for real Karakura Town so quickly and why Gin shanked her right off the bat.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Lithp

So, in other words, you have no idea what you're talking about, & because you don't understand Occam's Razor, you assume that I'm the one who is misusing it.

Again: Aizen was foreshadowed to still be alive. With Yamamoto, there is no such foreshadowing. Ergo, the belief that Yamamoto will come back requires assumption without information.

Furthermore, by your analogy, a reasonable conclusion is that, since I have been alive for 18 years, I'm never going to die.

In short, you're twisting words.

None of these characters have been confirmed dead. You are making the assumption that they're dead based on lack of information (it hasn't been shown that they're alive). However, there are two things we don't need to make assumptions about that give cause to believe these characters are alive.

1. Kubo doesn't kill good guys. I am literally unable to think of even one important, good-aligned character who has ever died. To come to the conclusion that these characters are dead, we have to make the assumption that Kubo has gone against his normal behavior.

2. If an important character's dying moments aren't shown, in practically every entertainment medium ever, then they are alive. Few things defy this trope, and Kubo certainly hasn't at any point. Believing that these characters are dead requires the assumption that this trope is being defied, something there is no evidence for.

Thus you are misusing Occam's Razor.

I know you hate being wrong, but it happens and you'll just need to come to terms with it.

[Lithp]

Edit: Okay, first of all, what's with this "these characters" shit? The only character I'm asserting is definitely deceased is Yamamoto. I haven't said jack shit about anyone else yet.

You are saying we are wrong.
Occam's razor says that we're right, because you being correct requires multiple incorrect marks from us, meanwhile we only need one from you.

No, it doesn't. It's Argument Ad Populum that says this, which is a logical fallacy. Again, this is just twisting words.

1. Kubo doesn't kill good guys. I am literally unable to think of even one important, good-aligned character who has ever died. To come to the conclusion that these characters are dead, we have to make the assumption that Kubo has gone against his normal behavior.

I have been alive for 18 years. Should this pattern continue, I will never die. Same thing. Moreover, it is not my theory that thrives in a vacuum. Yamamoto was stated as being dead. Saying that he "could" return is what thrives on a lack of information: There's nothing saying that he CAN'T come back, therefore, OBVIOUSLY, his resurrection is the logical conclusion. Yeah, I'm not buyin' it.

2. If an important character's dying moments aren't shown, in practically every entertainment medium ever, then they are alive. Few things defy this trope, and Kubo certainly hasn't at any point. Believing that these characters are dead requires the assumption that this trope is being defied, something there is no evidence for.

Yamamoto. Also, yeah, Kubo TOTALLY doesn't subvert shit. The Crowning Music of Awesome has never lied. It's not like we've had bait-&-switch villains before.

I know you hate being wrong, but it happens and you'll just need to come to terms with it.

That's kinda what I'm thinking of saying to you guys right now.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I have been alive for 18 years. Should this pattern continue, I will never die.

Thats a real bad analogy. You are a person bound by our reality.

They are characters who's lives are written by Tite Kubo.

See the contrast?

[Lithp]

Originally Posted by BardTheFifthLightWarrior

Thats a real bad analogy. You are a person bound by our reality.

They are characters who's lives are written by Tite Kubo.

See the contrast?

Oh, but my being mortal or bound to reality is an EXTRANEOUS ASSUMPTION!!!!1!!1~zomgeleventy!

It's a great analogy. We know Bleach characters can die. The entire series is ABOUT the afterlife. We also know that Soul Reapers can die. But it suddenly violates Occam's Razor to assume that one is dead because it hasn't happened in the story before?

That's like saying that, despite the fact that we know humans can die, we can't say that -I- will die, because that includes too many "assumptions." Since I have never died, it's "illogical" to conclude that I will, because that violates Occam's Razor! Why, you can't just assume that I'm bound to the same rules as all of you!

Now, I hope you can understand why I'm getting just a bit annoyed. You're trying to twist Occam's Razor to your advantage at the exact same time you're saying "Kubo can do whatever he wants." That shit doesn't fly in Logic Land.

I don't see how you expect me to argue on your terms when your terms seem to be "there are no rules except for what I decide is Kubo's pattern at the moment."

[Bard The 5th LW]

I actually have to agree with LithP to the extent that I think Captain Genocide is dead. No reason for him to still be alive, and I think it was mentioned/implied/WHATEVER that his final suicide thing was a suicide thing.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but Kubo or not, he seems pretty dead to me.

Edit: wait, who is on the side that people have died? I sort of lost track.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Lithp

Oh, but my being mortal or bound to reality is an EXTRANEOUS ASSUMPTION!!!!1!!1~zomgeleventy!

It's a great analogy. We know Bleach characters can die. The entire series is ABOUT the afterlife. We also know that Soul Reapers can die. But it suddenly violates Occam's Razor to assume that one is dead because it hasn't happened in the story before?

That's like saying that, despite the fact that we know humans can die, we can't say that -I- will die, because that includes too many "assumptions." Since I have never died, it's "illogical" to conclude that I will, because that violates Occam's Razor! Why, you can't just assume that I'm bound to the same rules as all of you!

Now, I hope you can understand why I'm getting just a bit annoyed. You're trying to twist Occam's Razor to your advantage at the exact same time you're saying "Kubo can do whatever he wants." That shit doesn't fly in Logic Land.

I don't see how you expect me to argue on your terms when your terms seem to be "there are no rules except for what I decide is Kubo's pattern at the moment."

No no no no no, this doesn't have to do with 'In the story Soul Reapers haven't died therefore they do not die'

This is 'Tite mothafuckin Kubo doesn't kill his popular main characters'. Logical or not, that's just how he is. If you want to discuss logic with Bleach you sort of have to accept that it's his logic because otherwise you're stopped at the door when you see people walking around on the sky.