Infraction Bullshit

[krogothwolf]

I kind of agree with the mods on this one, personally feelings aside. Fifth was pushing and pushing and pushing them. I like fifth, he's a cool guy. But you can only push so many buttons before someone goes "Alright, enough of this shit." and deal with it. Personally, I wouldn't have let fifth go as long as he had been, it was starting to seriously be annoying at times.

People make mistakes and sometimes let personal feelings get in the way, but Fifth, he was turning this place into a hostile environment. You can't do that. Not only that, when 2 people buttheads somethings gotta give, and the ones with the greater power are going to win in the end. Fifth shoulda realized this and cut his losses and smarten up. We may not like what they did to him but hell, a team has to function together in the end and nothing has overly changed in this place, just one member and few leave over it but that's their choice. If you don't like something you have 2 options, try to change it in a good way or leave. Fifth option was be a dick to those who pissed you off till they banned you, that can only get you so far.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

Why am I reminded of the six or seven times I heard "We're going to be doing stuff differently now" that pretty much all three of you have said to absolutely no change whatsoever?

I don't know why because I don't think anybody's ever said that before? Could be wrong though.

Originally Posted by Oster

It's difficult to put a time limit on how soon you get over something, though.

I'm not about to give out "be a dick for x amount of time" passes.

Basically I figured that if he actually tried to get over it instead of milking it for all it's worth, the amount of dickishness would decrease semi-linearly to 0 over time. Instead, it increased over time and we just got sick and tired of being increasingly ridiculed and mocked by fifth.

[Osterbaum]

Neither "side" of the whole issue has been acting spectacularily or anything. While I don't like it that Fifth is now banned, I can't really say it was an unfair ban and raise hell about it. I guess what really irks me here is the whole slippery-slope (not the logical fallacy) that this whole fiasco has been, and that I could critisize. Atleast as someone who was largely uninvolved in all of it.

[Mirai Gen]

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...&postcount=359

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

We're going to make a decision and pass it on to you plebs shortly.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...&postcount=314

Originally Posted by Shiney

As far as amendming it for the future, yeah. We'll have an entirely separate set of rules for mods to complement the overall forum ruleset so we don't have problems like this in the future.

Sorry you feel like you're not okay with this but honestly it's not okay to flame anyone really, banned or no...it definitely was okay at one point, and maybe in my own shifting viewpoint toward a more mature and less antagonistic style of moderation, the rules should have adjusted accordingly. Dunno. They will though.

Also Meister said he was 'not being a mod' or whatever and that lasted all of two days so sure we can chalk that up to another promise unfulfilled.

Also also seriously I'm not defending Fifth being abrasive towards a moderator staff who have shown him no respect. He's reacting as anyone could expect.

But maybe if the moderator staff did anything other than saying "Welp, deal with it" maybe he wouldn't have flown so completely off the handle? And maybe I wouldn't have either.

[Fenris]

Well Mirai in that post I was referring to new moderators.

Shiney's post though, yeah. That needs to happen.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by FenrisWolf

Well Mirai in that post I was referring to new moderators.

Yeah, look at how many new ones we have?

[Osterbaum]

Man, this shit is way worse than the assasination of some guy named Franz Ferdinand.

EDIT: Mirai has a point. I remember there being some talk about new mods, and while I don't expect you to appoint just anyone in like two days, it has been some time already. Maybe new mods would be a breath of fresh-air. That's always good.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

Yeah, look at how many new ones we have?

Yes, because "make a decision" means "promote somebody."

We decided to not promote somebody.

Y'know, as I announced in this post.

[Krylo]

Listen, I like Fifth, a lot. Always got along with him. When we were both admin we'd always be on the same side pretty much all the time.

And I'll admit when I saw he was banned my gut reaction was, well, not a good one.

However, while, MAYBE Shiney didn't have to 'poke' at him in that thread/with that post, the fact is that Shiney didn't call him out on anything that wasn't true. Fifth was acting out, and Fenris is 100% correct in so far as being ridiculed/mocked by Fifth. This would have come eventually either way.

His banning here isn't some kind of huge injustice, or I'd be right there making trouble with the rest of you all (as we all know I'm terrible at backing down). However, he brought it on himself.

I WILL say that I hope it's temporary because I'm definitely going to miss him, but I also hope it's somewhat long term, because unless he's gone for another number of months (like after he 'quit' after the discussion moratorium thing) I don't think it's going to end any differently.

Further: As an ex-admin I know that the administrators/moderators can't just open up a 'community committee' and roll everything past the users first. It's just not a viable method, and the admins/mods need to have the ability to tell the user base that things are going to go down THIS way.

However, I will agree that what we have here is basically a PR nightmare, in that even though that's the case the concerns, and, moreover, enjoyment of the user base should definitely be taken into account in so far as how moderation is handled goes. After all, the entire reason these forums exist is so that fans of Brian's work can come together and enjoy ourselves.

And I'm sure that they do listen when we bitch about things and take our concerns into account, if for no other reason than I know Shiney is a giant vagina who totally cries himself to sleep after we rip him a new one, but the way the moderators and admin staff are portraying themselves here is, definitely, giving the impression that they don't care what we say and that our opinions don't matter at all.

That said, the moderators and admins are ALSO part of this community, however, and while they, perhaps, have the responsibility to have a 'thicker skin' when it comes to being insulted or taken to task over their job, they also shouldn't have the responsibility to put up with a member--any member--no matter how well liked attacking them repeatedly.

So, basically, what we have here is a massive failure on the diplomacy checks.

I think we'd be well served if maybe this thread got closed and everyone kind of stepped back for a day. Maybe we could open a new one tomorrow if we really feel we still need to discuss this.

Also: Hire a PR guy, mods.

[synkr0nized]

Originally Posted by Mirai Gen

Also Meister said he was 'not being a mod' or whatever and that lasted all of two days so sure we can chalk that up to another promise unfulfilled.

You should really let that one go. It's old news, we convinced him not to do it, and he's still an admin. I don't get why folks think he's not or was going to go away.