Pokemon Umbral Discussion 37: You Don't Want To Enter This Thread - Page 8

Dracorion · 08-20-2010, 07:52 PM

Two things:

First of all, Trainer Attacks do generate Rage. So C and 3 are out.

About 3... AB already said Battle Masters (and Legion Mages and Battle Rogues and whatever) wouldn't get Trainer Attacks. So even if Trainer Attacks didn't generate Rage and we made them so, Battle Masters still couldn't use them.

Anyway, here's the new and, well... not so improved Sophia (yeah, I'm still butthurt), finalized barring AB having some objections. And he might about her Shock Trooper skill.

Sophia!

Right, so. I gave her static offenses like NPC Slayers while keeping the ability to switch her defences. I hope that's okay.

Also, I'm really really not sure about her Shock Trooper Skill. And I just know Geminex is going to want to nerf it. But enemies don't really seem to rely on Rage as much as we do. Hell, we don't even get to see their Rage, so how am I supposed to know? Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with making it so only half the Rage she generates is deducted from the enemies, if you don't like it as it is now.

Or Geminex puts up a good argument.

Menarker · 08-21-2010, 12:03 AM

Well, ignoring any of my misgivings I have about whether you should be allowed an extra PC of sort, (since I might have ideas of my own character), I'll leave the specifics of your character up to AB.

Just out of curiousity, did you meant to give Sophia only 5 pokemons? The standard for a Shock Trooper thus far is 6 unless you're a Kimono with only 1.

Dracorion · 08-21-2010, 12:10 AM

Ah yes, that.

See, Sophia gets more ranks the same way we do. She has to pick one upgrade in one class at a time, y'know?

So she only has five pokemon because she's only a Trainer level 3.

Astral Harmony · 08-21-2010, 02:30 AM

I'm going to take a potato chip...and eat it!

Whoa, those're pretty good. I think I'll take some more.

...Wait, where was I? Oh, questions! Questions are good! Especially when I don't feel like blowing off these jerk forumites by playing City of Heroes.

Pierce: "What about items?"

"Also, maybe we can buff trainer attacks in some way? Like, provide the trainers with weapons that cause certain status effects or debuffs? For example, Pierce is attacking with a Dragon Slave, so (totally forgot about this), half the time the targets he hits should take -1 Special Defense. Maybe we could buff trainer attacks so that, say, instead of a 50% chance of -1 Spec. Def, it'll be something like -2. And Charlotte could get a similar effect for her weapon. And Renny can get something like that if he ever gets a weapon."

Armored: "Well, let's see. I imagine the dual classes would have the number of items of the class that can carry the most items. And I thought Pierce was attacking with the Staff of Phantomere? But I will consider upgrading the potential of Trainer attacks. You are right, I did give them to you, so they should indeed do something."

"Hee hee hee. Renny's weapon could be a Valentine Card. Damn love freak."

Charlotte: "Although I would like to put the jar of Phantomere's blood to some use..."

Armored: "Sexual lubricant?"

"Wait, I've got it! Oh, that's going to be good. I hope you're ready for your life to get a little...strange."

*Sophia's profile*

Armored: "Personally? I don't really see any issues with this one. Barring any counter-arguements, I have no problem approving it."

Dracorion · 08-21-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Armored: "Well, let's see. I imagine the dual classes would have the number of items of the class that can carry the most items. And I thought Pierce was attacking with the Staff of Phantomere? But I will consider upgrading the potential of Trainer attacks. You are right, I did give them to you, so they should indeed do something."

I actually meant for him to be attacking with the Dragon Slave. Less things resist Dragon than Ghost.

But I'll start specifying from now on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Armored: "Sexual lubricant?"

"Wait, I've got it! Oh, that's going to be good. I hope you're ready for your life to get a little...strange."

The ooze is going to come to life and become Charlotte's life partner?

Wait no, that's Shannon.

Charlotte is going to accidentally eat the ooze and become a succubus? Or a spider demon or some such.

Or maybe it'll come to life, split into a thousand little cockroaches that are going to crawl around all over her and just won't die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Armored: "Personally? I don't really see any issues with this one. Barring any counter-arguements, I have no problem approving it."

Cool! Thanks.

So now we wait for Geminex to wake up.

And Gem, before you say anything, we do need a test run with the new guidelines.

Menarker · 08-21-2010, 10:12 AM

Drac, could I possibly make a suggestion?

For Sophia's pokemon Mismagius, maybe replace Toxic with Curse? Several times, I have noticed that a foe that was difficult to beat up or attack like that Steelix way earlier could have been dealt with easily enough if a move that didn't rely on status, but still cut down health by percentage was available. It's basically a time delayed version of Super Fang that bypass buffs, isn't stopped by status protection, doesn't get stopped by immunity to normal or physical type attacks like we dealt with in a few foes, and works against all foes regardless of typing. Yes, Mismagius would lose a huge chunk of hitpoints as a cost, but against a really annoying foe that is typically immune status or Super Fang in general, it would serve even more use than Toxic. Would be awesome with Divide as well.

Also, why are you using Calm Mind? The only move it would work on is Shadow Ball. Psywave is basically an altered version of Seismic Toss or Nightshade where it always does damage equal to 0.5 up to 1.5x the level of the pokemon. So a level 100 pokemon using Psywave will deal damage anywhere from 50 to 150 damage typeless damage. Calm Mind would do nothing to boost it. And with your other move being Toxic or perhaps Curse, you're getting Calm Mind for the purpose of only boosting one move, and that's assuming Mismagius lives long enough? At least Mollesk has the defense to justify a buff move.

To replace Calm Mind, I would advise Will o Wisp. It has 100% of inflicting burn which cuts down a target's attack stat by half, barring a fire type or pokemon with Guts trait. Since Mismagius has low phsyical defense as opposed to her already very high special defense, this help protect her a bit as well as anyone else, while also doing slow damage to it on a turn by turn basis. And since Curse is not a status move, it won't conflict.

Of course, that's assuming you don't just decide to replace Psywave with Psychic or some other special attack move that can benefit from Calm Mind.

Alternatively, Destiny Bond can help ensure that when it dies from an attack, the foe that knocks it out dies too. Maybe it'll be changed so that it does a good percentage of damage to a boss tagged foe. Plus, I'm getting that Scapegoat move for Umbreon quite some time later on perhaps. It would combo well with it.

ANYHOW, I gotta go for work. Hope that helps.

Geminex · 08-21-2010, 11:41 AM

Goddammit, guys. Stop posting so much!

Sophie's ok, actually. I mean, sure. Enemies lose rage when they get attacked by her. It's plausible, and not too strong.
Though lemme clarify: Whenever a unit attacks, or gets attacked, they gain rage. Would Sophie's ability just deduct rage as well, cancelling out (more or less), or would it nullify the enemy's rage gain and then subtract rage? The latter might be ok as well, but it's situational...

Like, assume she's attacking an unfortunate enemy Slayer. Said Slayer gets 10 rage from getting attacked, normally, while Sophia deducts 10 rage from him through her attack. So, did you envision it so that the Slayer ends up with 0 rage? Or -10?

Re: Trainer attacks.
I really object to making them more powerful. Trainers already have more defensive and, arguably, more offensive power than Slayers. Why would you buff them even more? It's bad enough that the attack generates rage.
In fact, do they even generate rage? Cause the upgrade sheet says:

Quote:

Attack is fairly weak and generates no Rage.

So, what is this? Do they, or do they not? And in the former case, rescind that shit or give pokebrids and slayers something comparable.

I was fine with trainer attacks when they were still being thematic, but if you're gonna let them have anything more than a minor effect on combat, it can't come for free! And looking at the upgrade schedule, it seems fairly balanced for the next few levels. Maybe when you go Breeder level 2 or 3 but until then... I'd be dismayed to find trainers getting this for free.

And why're you so opposed to my idea? It's more elegant than the combined-action thing you guys are advocating. Much simpler, certainly. And it allows every combination of classes, at equal power.

And Drac, I was thinking of it less as Pierce using his Slayer action to EMPOWER TYRANITAR THROUGH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP and more like:
Tyranitar, Earthquake!
Metagross, Earthquake!
*gets out Titanic fist*
Hammertime, motherfuckers!

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

Dracorion · 08-21-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarker

For Sophia's pokemon Mismagius, maybe replace Toxic with Curse?

Sure, Toxic can go to hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarker

Also, why are you using Calm Mind? The only move it would work on is Shadow Ball. Psywave is basically an altered version of Seismic Toss or Nightshade where it always does damage equal to 0.5 up to 1.5x the level of the pokemon. So a level 100 pokemon using Psywave will deal damage anywhere from 50 to 150 damage typeless damage. Calm Mind would do nothing to boost it. And with your other move being Toxic or perhaps Curse, you're getting Calm Mind for the purpose of only boosting one move, and that's assuming Mismagius lives long enough? At least Mollesk has the defense to justify a buff move.

Well, I don't quite remember why, it's been a while since I picked her pokemons' moves. But I'm guessing it's because she has no other decent attack moves, and I didn't want to give her another status move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarker

Of course, that's assuming you don't just decide to replace Psywave with Psychic or some other special attack move that can benefit from Calm Mind.

Mismagius doesn't get Psychic. Sure, she has other decent attacking moves, but none that Sophia's other pokemon can't already replicate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menarker

Alternatively, Destiny Bond can help ensure that when it dies from an attack, the foe that knocks it out dies too. Maybe it'll be changed so that it does a good percentage of damage to a boss tagged foe. Plus, I'm getting that Scapegoat move for Umbreon quite some time later on perhaps. It would combo well with it.

I think I'll go with Destiny Bond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Sophie's ok, actually. I mean, sure. Enemies lose rage when they get attacked by her. It's plausible, and not too strong.
Though lemme clarify: Whenever a unit attacks, or gets attacked, they gain rage. Would Sophie's ability just deduct rage as well, cancelling out (more or less), or would it nullify the enemy's rage gain and then subtract rage? The latter might be ok as well, but it's situational...

Like, assume she's attacking an unfortunate enemy Slayer. Said Slayer gets 10 rage from getting attacked, normally, while Sophia deducts 10 rage from him through her attack. So, did you envision it so that the Slayer ends up with 0 rage? Or -10?

Honestly? I didn't think about that. It's hard to think about enemy Rage when you can't see it.

But yeah, I'd rather it nullify the enemy's Rage gain and deduct.

So, AB, to clarify: I wanted Sophie's Shock Trooper skill to nullify the target's Rage gain for being hit and the amount of Rage she generates would be deducted as well. So basically the enemy wouldn't get Rage and they'd lose some, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

Re: Trainer attacks.
I really object to making them more powerful. Trainers already have more defensive and, arguably, more offensive power than Slayers. Why would you buff them even more? It's bad enough that the attack generates rage.
In fact, do they even generate rage? Cause the upgrade sheet says:

So, what is this? Do they, or do they not? And in the former case, rescind that shit or give pokebrids and slayers something comparable.

Well, I think we adressed the discrepancy between the upgrade sheet and what actually goes on in the RP.

Or maybe not, I don't remember.

But if we did, we somehow were okay with Trainer Attacks generating Rage. I believe in exchange we gave Slayers and Pokebrids double Rage, remember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

I was fine with trainer attacks when they were still being thematic, but if you're gonna let them have anything more than a minor effect on combat, it can't come for free! And looking at the upgrade schedule, it seems fairly balanced for the next few levels. Maybe when you go Breeder level 2 or 3 but until then... I'd be dismayed to find trainers getting this for free.

There's a difference between "minor" and "non-existent". They're non-existent now. Maybe my suggestion was far too strong, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't buff Trainer Attacks a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geminex

And why're you so opposed to my idea? It's more elegant than the combined-action thing you guys are advocating. Much simpler, certainly. And it allows every combination of classes, at equal power.

And Drac, I was thinking of it less as Pierce using his Slayer action to EMPOWER TYRANITAR THROUGH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP and more like:
Tyranitar, Earthquake!
Metagross, Earthquake!
*gets out Titanic fist*
Hammertime, motherfuckers!

In short, the primary class attacks, the secondary class(es) support it. I'm not sure how, exactly, but I'm thinking that it either acts as a basic attack-strength increase, gives extra Stab, gives extra status effects, or a combination of the three.

Meh. I just don't like it. Maybe I just prefer being able to fight at the same time as my pokemon, is that so wrong?

It's not like the classes are unbalanced as is. They all seem pretty equal to me.

I don't think your idea is simpler than how it is now, and I don't think it's better either. If the classes are fine as it is, which I believe they are, why change it?

I realize you're butthurt about the fact that you chose not to get pokemon, but you get to go Full Demon if you choose! Basically, take all the skills you wanted for your Magatama and put nine ranks in them.

Or hell, you could go only go as far as Demon Half and go Overblade, in which case you'd get two attacks, immunities to certain statuses and types, and awesome Rage generation.

As for your example, what happens if Pierce doesn't have the Titanic Fist equipped?

Astral Harmony · 08-21-2010, 05:31 PM

I'm not talking about any major buffing to Trainer Attacks. Their existence is based solely on simple logic. I figured that if someone's Pokemon beat someone or something within an inch of its life, it only made sense that the Trainer himself had a weapon, like a pistol or length of pipe or something similar, to deal the final blow and do away with the annoyance of having to sit out the enemy's phase and be attacked just so they can use a Pokemon's action the next turn in order to beat someone who, more or less, was only alive because the Trainer's Pokemon's attacks just couldn't do one or two hitpoints worth of damage more the last turn.

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

Dracorion · 08-21-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs.

Well, if it meant not having to guess who's about to die...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit.

Yeah, 's cool. No negative Rage.

Though, speaking of status effects...

See, I've been thinking. There's one status effect from the games that is completely useless in this battle system. Infatuation.

So I, considering there are already buffed up versions of a couple of status effects (Plasmaburn, Deep Freeze, and Bad Poison), I figured I'd come up with a buffed up Infatuation.

Quote:

Love (Status effect, mental)
The affected foe will not attack the target they are in Love with while this status is in effect.

Simple, eh? And it can't possibly be overpowered because it still only one enemy that won't be attacking one ally. It would probably work best with Signature Techniques and shit that inflict one enemy with Love on several allies at the same time, or inflict a few foes with Love on a few allies.

And of course, because this is Pokemon Umbral and not a kid's game (we have lesbians), it doesn't actually have to be restricted to the opposite gender. Could work on targets of the same sex and even genderless.

And OH GODDAMNIT I JUST CAME UP WITH A WAY TO MAKE AN INSTANT HAREM FUCK

Anyway, yeah, I decided to give AB another proverbial bullet to shoot us in the head with.

On a similar note, does Plasmaburn reduce the target's attack by 50% like Burn does?

I've been thinking about Paralysis too. I mean, on one hand 25% chance that one target won't attack isn't much in this RP. On the other, Thunder Wave is about the most common move there is. Still, no one ever uses it. So I'll start thinking about what to do with Paralysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn.

This.

This is perfect!

Not only because you've incorporated my Technique idea for Charlotte (except it should be Kick the Puppy), but because it gives us so much more that we can do.

Though, it's going to be tricky for Pierce. I mean, Charlotte can abuse her pokemon to inspire them, Renny can give them some verbal encouragement. Except if Pierce tries to encourage his pokemon, it's instantly gay. And he won't abuse them either.

Still, I'll come up with something.

08-20-2010, 07:52 PM	#71
Dracorion Moves Like Jagger, Kupo! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right. Posts: 4,910	Two things: First of all, Trainer Attacks do generate Rage. So C and 3 are out. About 3... AB already said Battle Masters (and Legion Mages and Battle Rogues and whatever) wouldn't get Trainer Attacks. So even if Trainer Attacks didn't generate Rage and we made them so, Battle Masters still couldn't use them. Anyway, here's the new and, well... not so improved Sophia (yeah, I'm still butthurt), finalized barring AB having some objections. And he might about her Shock Trooper skill. Sophia! Right, so. I gave her static offenses like NPC Slayers while keeping the ability to switch her defences. I hope that's okay. Also, I'm really really not sure about her Shock Trooper Skill. And I just know Geminex is going to want to nerf it. But enemies don't really seem to rely on Rage as much as we do. Hell, we don't even get to see their Rage, so how am I supposed to know? Anyway, I'm perfectly fine with making it so only half the Rage she generates is deducted from the enemies, if you don't like it as it is now. Or Geminex puts up a good argument. __________________ Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away. Last edited by Dracorion; 08-21-2010 at 02:37 PM.

08-21-2010, 12:03 AM	#72
Menarker OMG! WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW? Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,802	Well, ignoring any of my misgivings I have about whether you should be allowed an extra PC of sort, (since I might have ideas of my own character), I'll leave the specifics of your character up to AB. Just out of curiousity, did you meant to give Sophia only 5 pokemons? The standard for a Shock Trooper thus far is 6 unless you're a Kimono with only 1. __________________ THE BIO OF RENNY TRESSERHORN THE BIOs OF POKEMON UMBRAL!

08-21-2010, 12:10 AM	#73
Dracorion Moves Like Jagger, Kupo! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right. Posts: 4,910	Ah yes, that. See, Sophia gets more ranks the same way we do. She has to pick one upgrade in one class at a time, y'know? So she only has five pokemon because she's only a Trainer level 3. __________________ Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away.

08-21-2010, 10:12 AM	#76
Menarker OMG! WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW? Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,802	Drac, could I possibly make a suggestion? For Sophia's pokemon Mismagius, maybe replace Toxic with Curse? Several times, I have noticed that a foe that was difficult to beat up or attack like that Steelix way earlier could have been dealt with easily enough if a move that didn't rely on status, but still cut down health by percentage was available. It's basically a time delayed version of Super Fang that bypass buffs, isn't stopped by status protection, doesn't get stopped by immunity to normal or physical type attacks like we dealt with in a few foes, and works against all foes regardless of typing. Yes, Mismagius would lose a huge chunk of hitpoints as a cost, but against a really annoying foe that is typically immune status or Super Fang in general, it would serve even more use than Toxic. Would be awesome with Divide as well. Also, why are you using Calm Mind? The only move it would work on is Shadow Ball. Psywave is basically an altered version of Seismic Toss or Nightshade where it always does damage equal to 0.5 up to 1.5x the level of the pokemon. So a level 100 pokemon using Psywave will deal damage anywhere from 50 to 150 damage typeless damage. Calm Mind would do nothing to boost it. And with your other move being Toxic or perhaps Curse, you're getting Calm Mind for the purpose of only boosting one move, and that's assuming Mismagius lives long enough? At least Mollesk has the defense to justify a buff move. To replace Calm Mind, I would advise Will o Wisp. It has 100% of inflicting burn which cuts down a target's attack stat by half, barring a fire type or pokemon with Guts trait. Since Mismagius has low phsyical defense as opposed to her already very high special defense, this help protect her a bit as well as anyone else, while also doing slow damage to it on a turn by turn basis. And since Curse is not a status move, it won't conflict. Of course, that's assuming you don't just decide to replace Psywave with Psychic or some other special attack move that can benefit from Calm Mind. Alternatively, Destiny Bond can help ensure that when it dies from an attack, the foe that knocks it out dies too. Maybe it'll be changed so that it does a good percentage of damage to a boss tagged foe. Plus, I'm getting that Scapegoat move for Umbreon quite some time later on perhaps. It would combo well with it. ANYHOW, I gotta go for work. Hope that helps. __________________ THE BIO OF RENNY TRESSERHORN THE BIOs OF POKEMON UMBRAL! Last edited by Menarker; 08-21-2010 at 10:21 AM.

08-21-2010, 05:31 PM	#79
Astral Harmony Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Moe Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Harmonial Sanctum Posts: 6,798	I'm not talking about any major buffing to Trainer Attacks. Their existence is based solely on simple logic. I figured that if someone's Pokemon beat someone or something within an inch of its life, it only made sense that the Trainer himself had a weapon, like a pistol or length of pipe or something similar, to deal the final blow and do away with the annoyance of having to sit out the enemy's phase and be attacked just so they can use a Pokemon's action the next turn in order to beat someone who, more or less, was only alive because the Trainer's Pokemon's attacks just couldn't do one or two hitpoints worth of damage more the last turn. One of the things I might think of doing is taking the Trainer Attacks and making them my business. Like, at the end of the Watchmen Phase, I take control of the Trainer Attacks and aim them at opponents that only have a sliver of health left just to get them out of the battle. But the last thing I want to do is take control of PCs. I still approve of Sophia's Shock Trooper skill, although I will point out that there's no such thing as negative Rage. Then I'd have to do something silly like create a new status effect called Demoralized in which the unit just doesn't feel up to scrappin' anymore and strolls away to buy a churro or some shit. EDIT: Now that I think about it, I feel the Trainers could do other things besides attack as a free action instead of deal small damage to the enemy. And I might as well let the PCs come up with it. Charlotte could have a Trainer skill called Kick the Doggy that deals a little damage to her target Pokemon and buffs it's damage and critical hit rate for that turn. Last edited by Astral Harmony; 08-21-2010 at 05:38 PM.

08-21-2010, 02:30 AM	#74
Astral Harmony Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Moe Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Harmonial Sanctum Posts: 6,798	I'm going to take a potato chip...and eat it! Whoa, those're pretty good. I think I'll take some more. ...Wait, where was I? Oh, questions! Questions are good! Especially when I don't feel like blowing off these jerk forumites by playing City of Heroes. Pierce: "What about items?" "Also, maybe we can buff trainer attacks in some way? Like, provide the trainers with weapons that cause certain status effects or debuffs? For example, Pierce is attacking with a Dragon Slave, so (totally forgot about this), half the time the targets he hits should take -1 Special Defense. Maybe we could buff trainer attacks so that, say, instead of a 50% chance of -1 Spec. Def, it'll be something like -2. And Charlotte could get a similar effect for her weapon. And Renny can get something like that if he ever gets a weapon." Armored: "Well, let's see. I imagine the dual classes would have the number of items of the class that can carry the most items. And I thought Pierce was attacking with the Staff of Phantomere? But I will consider upgrading the potential of Trainer attacks. You are right, I did give them to you, so they should indeed do something." "Hee hee hee. Renny's weapon could be a Valentine Card. Damn love freak." Charlotte: "Although I would like to put the jar of Phantomere's blood to some use..." Armored: "Sexual lubricant?" "Wait, I've got it! Oh, that's going to be good. I hope you're ready for your life to get a little...strange." Sophia's profile Armored: "Personally? I don't really see any issues with this one. Barring any counter-arguements, I have no problem approving it."