Ultimate Spider Man: Peter Parker is dead, long live Spider-Man - Page 8

Professor Smarmiarty · 08-08-2011, 01:49 PM

I didn't see that either (referring to marvel saying that ixed race spider is better). Surely if that was the case they would be like "Oh fuck, we killed that whitey. Latinoblacks all the way!" all the mentions of race has been from non-marvel sources, ie racists kicking a shit.

Kim · 08-08-2011, 01:50 PM

I can agree that you're seeing what you're looking for in that article, but that does not actually mean it is there.

Overcast · 08-08-2011, 01:50 PM

So you hate me then?

Kim · 08-08-2011, 01:52 PM

Sure, why not.

If the choice is pretending that your opinion is as valid as mine when I honestly don't think it is or letting you think I hate you, then I guess I'll go with the latter.

I wouldn't normally think those are the only two options, but I'm not going to get too hung up on it since that's what you decided.

Fifthfiend · 08-08-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon

I think this really depends on whether or not Parker stays dead.

This is only just this side of saying it depends on whether the sun rises in the morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

But I am. Now there is two ways this can go. Either you or I are genuinely right and the other is dead stinking wrong wrong, or that you have a certain perspective on it and so do I and since you can't see it from where I am at you can't understand why people are getting so worked up. And since I can't see from where you are I can't see why this is such an important milestone.

So, do you hate me, or can we agree to disagree?

It's interesting that you immediately equate you being wrong with him hating you.

Does that apply to everything? If you take a math test and your teacher says "Well on this question, rather than being correct, you were not", does he hate you, does he think you are the worst human being ever to live? Or does he think that you were... wrong, in your answer to a question?

Overcast · 08-08-2011, 01:57 PM

Which is because you won't respect an opinion other than your own. At any rate the merest fact that such an article exists simply lets us know that nothing has changed. If this was really progress, then we shouldn't have said a word.

Kim · 08-08-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

This is only just this side of saying it depends on whether the sun rises in the morning.

I'm not particularly invested in comics in general, but I may try to be invested in the new Spidey since it's not only a new beginning but one I feel needs supporting and one that hasn't been rehashed fifty times. It'll be new to me, it'll be a good place to start, and I want to support it. I'll support it as long as it lasts and give them the benefit that they intend to continue it for some time. I do this last bit because it's an alternate universe, so I'm hoping they're willing to experiment as much as they should. Of course, my main comics experience being DC alt-universe mini-series has undoubtedly colored my perception of such things.

Krylo · 08-08-2011, 02:01 PM

I think the problem people are having is that they chose the wrong character to include minority representation with.

People don't give a fuck about Spiderman. People care about Peter Parker. This has been the case since the comics came out back in the days before time because Peter Parker, as the lonely fuck up nerd who gets super powers, resonates like a motherfucker with the kind of people who read comics.

Replacing him with a mixed race character and talking about how minority representation is so great and what not is going to rub people the wrong way because it DOES come off as blatino spiderman is better because we're now making our affirmative action quota in our comics with no mind being paid to the fact that people only read the books for Parker.

It'd be like if they rereleased Persona 4 and decided to remove Kanji, to use a character I know YOU care about, and replace him with a black man name John who has an obvious boyfriend and then rather than talk about the removal of an important character to the gaming community, they talked about how great it was to finally have a racial minority in the game.

Would it be true that they're saying the character is better because he's a minority? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the wording. Would it still rub you the wrong way like a motherfucker?

I'm guessing that it would.

And I'm thinking maybe you should try to see it from a perspective other than your own here.

Also: Maybe if they talked less about race and more about whether this character would share/not share the aspects of Parker's personality that resonated it would help. Maybe not, though. It'd still be a different character.

Professor Smarmiarty · 08-08-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

Which is because you won't respect an opinion other than your own. At any rate the merest fact that such an article exists simply lets us know that nothing has changed. If this was really progress, then we shouldn't have said a word.

That's kind of the exact point everyone has been making. The fact that bigots are kicking a shit shows the exact need for positive role models for both racial and sexual minorities.7

E: Re Krylo- I am that is a valid point but from reading the news articles and the comments on them nobody is making that point. They keep bringing up the race and not that they like Peter so much.

Kim · 08-08-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

Which is because you won't respect an opinion other than your own.

Not necessarily. I just won't respect opinions I find unarguably wrong.

Quote:

At any rate the merest fact that such an article exists simply lets us know that nothing has changed. If this was really progress, then we shouldn't have said a word.

I get that you're trying to be all "the fact that we're calling attention to progress means it's not progress," which is asinine, but I'm willing to say we still have a long ways to go. Where we primarily differ is that I think forcing progress, drawing attention to said progress, and supporting said progress are steps in achieving progress.

You seem to think that if we acknowledge progress it doesn't count and therefore shouldn't happen.

I have a hard time reading it any other way.

08-08-2011, 01:50 PM	#72
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	I can agree that you're seeing what you're looking for in that article, but that does not actually mean it is there. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

08-08-2011, 01:50 PM	#73
Overcast Cinderella Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trespassing in the graveyard Posts: 3,076	So you hate me then? __________________ Time to bust out the glow sticks!

08-08-2011, 01:52 PM	#74
Kim adorable Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 12,950	Sure, why not. If the choice is pretending that your opinion is as valid as mine when I honestly don't think it is or letting you think I hate you, then I guess I'll go with the latter. I wouldn't normally think those are the only two options, but I'm not going to get too hung up on it since that's what you decided. __________________ this post is about how to successfully H the Kimmy

08-08-2011, 01:57 PM	#76
Overcast Cinderella Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trespassing in the graveyard Posts: 3,076	Which is because you won't respect an opinion other than your own. At any rate the merest fact that such an article exists simply lets us know that nothing has changed. If this was really progress, then we shouldn't have said a word. __________________ Time to bust out the glow sticks!

08-08-2011, 02:01 PM	#78
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Not that I'm defending Jagos, in particular, as I have no idea what he was about. I think the problem people are having is that they chose the wrong character to include minority representation with. People don't give a fuck about Spiderman. People care about Peter Parker. This has been the case since the comics came out back in the days before time because Peter Parker, as the lonely fuck up nerd who gets super powers, resonates like a motherfucker with the kind of people who read comics. Replacing him with a mixed race character and talking about how minority representation is so great and what not is going to rub people the wrong way because it DOES come off as blatino spiderman is better because we're now making our affirmative action quota in our comics with no mind being paid to the fact that people only read the books for Parker. It'd be like if they rereleased Persona 4 and decided to remove Kanji, to use a character I know YOU care about, and replace him with a black man name John who has an obvious boyfriend and then rather than talk about the removal of an important character to the gaming community, they talked about how great it was to finally have a racial minority in the game. Would it be true that they're saying the character is better because he's a minority? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the wording. Would it still rub you the wrong way like a motherfucker? I'm guessing that it would. And I'm thinking maybe you should try to see it from a perspective other than your own here. Also: Maybe if they talked less about race and more about whether this character would share/not share the aspects of Parker's personality that resonated it would help. Maybe not, though. It'd still be a different character. __________________ I am very tired.

08-08-2011, 01:49 PM	#71
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I didn't see that either (referring to marvel saying that ixed race spider is better). Surely if that was the case they would be like "Oh fuck, we killed that whitey. Latinoblacks all the way!" all the mentions of race has been from non-marvel sources, ie racists kicking a shit.