Drug question

Bob The Mercenary · 09-29-2006, 02:09 PM

I do deliveries for my dad's pharmacy during the day and one regular customer we have has a habit of ordering 5 cases of rubbing alcohol per month. That's 60 bottles of rubbing alcohol a month. Only two people live in their apartment and they've been ordering it like this for more than a year. I'm beginning to wonder what they could possibly be using these huge orders for.

I've already looked into the possibility of them purchasing the stuff for other places such as school nurse's offices and first aid squads, but we do all deliveries direct to those places. Is there some way to produce or refine some sort of street drug by using rubbing alcohol? It'd be cool if I could break a story like that.

Raiden · 09-29-2006, 02:43 PM

.................

Another thread by BtM to add to my list. The reasons to kill you just GROW, Bob.

Anyway, rubbing alcohol? As far as I know, that's not a needed ingredient for any big-time drugs. Though it can be used in Bum Wine...there's really not a big demand for that stuff though.

Then again, you can make a drug out of almost anything. So I wouldn't be surprised.

Azisien · 09-29-2006, 02:53 PM

Yay, my knowledge of organic chemistry might actually come in handy! Though, if we have more experienced chemists or uh (hopefully not) "experienced" recreational drug users, they'd probably know more.

Rubbing alcohol is probably primarily ethanol in the 92-99% range, which is the stuff I've used in organic chemistry labs. There are simply tons of possible reactions to build on from there, but it's usually used as a solvent. It's good for, well, making a bigger organic alcohols, and supplying either the oxygen or hydrogen (-OH) in the reaction, among other things.

I decided to look up the first common street drug that comes to mind: crystal meth, or metamphetamine. It's a derivative of ephedrine, and I looked up both chemical structures out of curiousity. The only significant difference between them is the presence of a hydroxyl group, and that can be removed if you protonate it somehow (turning it into "water," which is a good leaving group). To do that, you need a supply of hydrogen, and one easy to obtain chemical with that is, you guessed it, rubbing alcohol.

Of course, this is a fair amount of conjecture. Still, 60 bottles of rubbing alcohol per month is a LOT. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Maybe he's germophobic or something (though you'd think if it was that bad, he'd show up at the pharmacy with a hepa-filter mask on or something). I don't know enough about the intricacies of producing crystal meth but, it sounds like this guy has enough concentrated alcohol to supply one of the reactants for the reaction.

It is a little suspicious though, because ephedrine can be obtained over-the-counter too. That's probably part of the reason crystal meth is a growing problem, but that's another discussion in itself.

Hope that was helpful!

Bob The Mercenary · 09-29-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azisien

It is a little suspicious though, because ephedrine can be obtained over-the-counter too.

Aha! Not anymore it can't. Just the other day we got a fax telling us to move all products containing psuedoephedrine behind the counter specifically to counter the meth labs out there using it. Now, just to purchase Sudafed, Robitussin, Claritin-D, Mucinex-D, Aleve, etc, you need a photo i.d. and a signature is required in a logbook.

That was a helpful explanation, though.

[Edit] I did a quick check and our rubbing alcohol is 70% ethanol. Just in case that changes anything.

Azisien · 09-29-2006, 04:27 PM

Well, the drop in ethanol just means you would need more of it. But anyway, yeah. He might be distributing to orphans instead. Yeah, that's a little more optimistic than the small-scale meth lab in his apartment.

Selfish · 09-29-2006, 04:35 PM

You can concentrate rubbing alcohol with a still; very dangerous.

These deliveries sound like they would be more likely for cutting a drug rather than producing one, in my estimation. Anything shootable would also have that icy cold, yet not unpleasant sting to it. Alcohol has this wonderful way of absorbing into itself anything that is primary water; perhaps even the dregs from magic mushrooms?

This one acquaintance I knew from work actually raised their own `shrooms. It has to be absolutely sterile for you to raise them correctly.
Apparently, the more care you put into the suckers, the more productive they are for you.
Another friend from the same workplace was telling me that their neighbours bought gallons and gallons of bleach; every garbage day they`d put the empties out for the recycling truck to take away. She supposed that they were either making or cutting drugs, but again, who really knows?
I have talked with people who genuinely believe that tinfoil hats will prevent the evil empire from reading their thoughts, or from the gov`t from beaming in thoughts to their brains. It stands to reason that there are those out there that cannot bear to touch anything without swabbing it with either bleach or alcohol.
Also, having never partaken of any illicit drug in my life, I have actually no further ideas.

Good luck with the investigation, Bob!

Khael! · 09-29-2006, 05:17 PM

Hmmm... the first things that came to my mind were flammable and terrorist. But that's just stupid. I've been influenced by the fact that my physics teacher lit an alcohol-soaked string tied to a ballon full of hydrogen gas today.

But, still... They certainly wouldn't be consuming the stuff. I checked wikipedia, It had a few things about its use in engines/ fuel tanks or something. Go look.

Hatake Kakashi · 10-01-2006, 04:20 AM

I would have to doubt it's being used for fuel... at least in something such as that. The sheer price of that much alcohol being purchased would completely defeat the purpose of using it as an alternative fuel to gasoline, even during August when the prices spiked. If they had planned to use it for that, chances are they'd manufacture ethanol using a still and corn products/waste.

The flammability would/could be something of a concern, but I would actually have to understand a bit more about the particular customer before I could assume much more than that. Does he own a business? Another pharmacy perhaps? Pharmacies that specialize in compounding on larger scales go through unbelievable amounts of alcohol, though if he owned a pharmacy, I would be rather shocked to see him ordering through another pharmacy rather than through a source such as McKesson. You never know, though.

Bob The Mercenary · 10-02-2006, 10:16 AM

Well, the couple is actually fairly elderly. At least the guy who answers the door looks that way. Either that or he has some sort of debilitating disease. He looks too old and out of shape to own or operate anything, let alone a pharmacy. Until we get another order from the guy I can't really dig much deeper. Unless of course I go over to their place and walk the halls of the retirement home on surveillance.

Mr.Bookworm · 10-02-2006, 08:50 PM

Call the police on em'. Because, goddamit, no one manufactures crystal meth like ME!

...

Seriously though, you might want to tip off the police. And just because they're old doesn't mean they aren't drug maufacturers/sellers.

09-29-2006, 02:09 PM	#1
Bob The Mercenary Bob Dole Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bob Dole Posts: 5,606	Drug question I do deliveries for my dad's pharmacy during the day and one regular customer we have has a habit of ordering 5 cases of rubbing alcohol per month. That's 60 bottles of rubbing alcohol a month. Only two people live in their apartment and they've been ordering it like this for more than a year. I'm beginning to wonder what they could possibly be using these huge orders for. I've already looked into the possibility of them purchasing the stuff for other places such as school nurse's offices and first aid squads, but we do all deliveries direct to those places. Is there some way to produce or refine some sort of street drug by using rubbing alcohol? It'd be cool if I could break a story like that. __________________ Bob Dole Last edited by Bob The Mercenary; 09-29-2006 at 02:12 PM.

09-29-2006, 02:43 PM	#2
Raiden Just a passing through veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: On your couch. Yes? Posts: 5,327	................. Another thread by BtM to add to my list. The reasons to kill you just GROW, Bob. Anyway, rubbing alcohol? As far as I know, that's not a needed ingredient for any big-time drugs. Though it can be used in Bum Wine...there's really not a big demand for that stuff though. Then again, you can make a drug out of almost anything. So I wouldn't be surprised. __________________ I have a signature. It's a really cool one, too. It's so awesome, you'd pull your eyes out and punch your mother. Sadly, these rules state that my signature is just too darned big. Too much awesome for such a small space. Oh well. You can still punch your mother...if you want... Fifth and Krylo made me do it. http://www.animecubed.com/billy/user...sigs/60266.jpg Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

09-29-2006, 04:35 PM	#6
Selfish mammothtank send me that link again Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Canuckistan. Posts: 356	You can concentrate rubbing alcohol with a still; very dangerous. These deliveries sound like they would be more likely for cutting a drug rather than producing one, in my estimation. Anything shootable would also have that icy cold, yet not unpleasant sting to it. Alcohol has this wonderful way of absorbing into itself anything that is primary water; perhaps even the dregs from magic mushrooms? This one acquaintance I knew from work actually raised their own `shrooms. It has to be absolutely sterile for you to raise them correctly. Apparently, the more care you put into the suckers, the more productive they are for you. Another friend from the same workplace was telling me that their neighbours bought gallons and gallons of bleach; every garbage day they`d put the empties out for the recycling truck to take away. She supposed that they were either making or cutting drugs, but again, who really knows? I have talked with people who genuinely believe that tinfoil hats will prevent the evil empire from reading their thoughts, or from the gov`t from beaming in thoughts to their brains. It stands to reason that there are those out there that cannot bear to touch anything without swabbing it with either bleach or alcohol. Also, having never partaken of any illicit drug in my life, I have actually no further ideas. Good luck with the investigation, Bob! __________________ Eastern Daylight: the place where I am. "The internet: where you can show the world that you're doodling on your flesh and receive tangible rewards." - sekrit persun on NPF.

09-29-2006, 05:17 PM	#7
Khael! I'm somebody else these days. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Same house same hill same bat channel still canada Posts: 1,968	Hmmm... the first things that came to my mind were flammable and terrorist. But that's just stupid. I've been influenced by the fact that my physics teacher lit an alcohol-soaked string tied to a ballon full of hydrogen gas today. But, still... They certainly wouldn't be consuming the stuff. I checked wikipedia, It had a few things about its use in engines/ fuel tanks or something. Go look. __________________ "Life is like a box of chocolates. Cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for." - CGB Spender Super Perfundo on the Early Eve of Your Day. Last edited by Khael!; 09-29-2006 at 06:55 PM.

10-02-2006, 10:16 AM	#9
Bob The Mercenary Bob Dole Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bob Dole Posts: 5,606	Well, the couple is actually fairly elderly. At least the guy who answers the door looks that way. Either that or he has some sort of debilitating disease. He looks too old and out of shape to own or operate anything, let alone a pharmacy. Until we get another order from the guy I can't really dig much deeper. Unless of course I go over to their place and walk the halls of the retirement home on surveillance. __________________ Bob Dole

09-29-2006, 02:53 PM	#3
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	Yay, my knowledge of organic chemistry might actually come in handy! Though, if we have more experienced chemists or uh (hopefully not) "experienced" recreational drug users, they'd probably know more. Rubbing alcohol is probably primarily ethanol in the 92-99% range, which is the stuff I've used in organic chemistry labs. There are simply tons of possible reactions to build on from there, but it's usually used as a solvent. It's good for, well, making a bigger organic alcohols, and supplying either the oxygen or hydrogen (-OH) in the reaction, among other things. I decided to look up the first common street drug that comes to mind: crystal meth, or metamphetamine. It's a derivative of ephedrine, and I looked up both chemical structures out of curiousity. The only significant difference between them is the presence of a hydroxyl group, and that can be removed if you protonate it somehow (turning it into "water," which is a good leaving group). To do that, you need a supply of hydrogen, and one easy to obtain chemical with that is, you guessed it, rubbing alcohol. Of course, this is a fair amount of conjecture. Still, 60 bottles of rubbing alcohol per month is a LOT. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions. Maybe he's germophobic or something (though you'd think if it was that bad, he'd show up at the pharmacy with a hepa-filter mask on or something). I don't know enough about the intricacies of producing crystal meth but, it sounds like this guy has enough concentrated alcohol to supply one of the reactants for the reaction. It is a little suspicious though, because ephedrine can be obtained over-the-counter too. That's probably part of the reason crystal meth is a growing problem, but that's another discussion in itself. Hope that was helpful!

09-29-2006, 04:27 PM	#5
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	Well, the drop in ethanol just means you would need more of it. But anyway, yeah. He might be distributing to orphans instead. Yeah, that's a little more optimistic than the small-scale meth lab in his apartment.

10-02-2006, 08:50 PM	#10
Mr.Bookworm YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHH Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,034	Call the police on em'. Because, goddamit, no one manufactures crystal meth like ME! ... Seriously though, you might want to tip off the police. And just because they're old doesn't mean they aren't drug maufacturers/sellers.