[tVtRoPEs] Let's talk about shows which follow this particular trajectory

Fifthfiend · 11-01-2010, 03:29 PM

Show is good! Flawed but, on balance, enjoyable -> Show is shitty! But still fun to watch, mostly for the enjoyment of bitching about its many failings, with occasional glimmers of actual goodness -> ugh, fuck this show

It seems like there are a lot of things which do this!

Off the top of my head:

Glee

Battlestar Galactica

Bleach*

Why do shows do this? Am I right that these shows do this? Is this as particular a thing as I think it is, or is it just the perfectly normal arc for good shows turning into terrible shows? Is there anything at all to discuss here, or is this thread doomed to turn into a big circular jerking of people jerking in a circle? Who are these people, and what are they jerking, and why are they doing it in a circle? Whose hand do we expect to end up grabbing whose dick? STAY TUNED TO FIND OUT!!!

*a comic, but also a show! So it counts.

Token · 11-01-2010, 03:37 PM

You forgot Heroes.

But yes, this is a thing, it's a shitty thing, and it always happens to shows I like. Buffy, for example (although I wouldn't be surprised if my nostalgic memories of Buffy are due solely to the nerdcrush I had on Alyson Hannigan back when I was six.)

Professor Smarmiarty · 11-01-2010, 03:39 PM

Marketing will force creative well-written nuanced shows to fall into chracter bawlderisation and stereotypical plots once it becomes clear which parts of the show sell the easiest to audiences. I don't watch any ofthese shows but this is possibly what going dowwwwwn.

PCD · 11-01-2010, 03:39 PM

Heroes is like this, if you take out the middle section.

I think it's a natural thing that happens with a lot of shows that get popular. They forget or don't know why exactly so many people like them, and then focus on what they think people want, but instead just make it into something stupid and terrible instead of more of what we love.

With newer shows, I think it may have something to do with the producers, misinterpreting what fans want and what makes good television, skewing ideas and messing with what probably wouldn't have been so bad on its own. Messing around with new writers, different directors, etc.

With shows that have been running longer, it may also be a degradation of ideas on the creator's part, or losing sight of the original intent and maybe getting a big head.

I think it's also worth noting that Shyamalan's movies followed this trend over time.

Fifthfiend · 11-01-2010, 03:43 PM

I was actually considering Heroes as a counterexample because that show basically started out as equal parts "good" and "shitty but fun to make fun of", then it went to like "show is just shit but you kid yourself otherwise because you want it to still be good" and then it was just ugh, fuck this.

Actually "show is just shit but you kid yourself otherwise because you want it to still be good" probably belongs in the initial show trajectory I laid out, probably either before or after the second step.

Archbio · 11-01-2010, 04:07 PM

Edit: the middle part of the trajectory is a hugely subjective thing. I mean, did it amuse anyone else but me when Deep Space Nine became Klingon pornography before it was about Space Anti-Christ fighting Space Jesus? One viewer's curve is another viewer's plummet.

DarkDrgon · 11-01-2010, 04:16 PM

I liked the third season of heroes, but I'm in the minority there. I'd put Heroes on the Good, interesting show>screwed by the network>Trying to get the old feel back>clusterfuck path

The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk · 11-01-2010, 05:28 PM

Where does Smallville fit in this scheme? Does it add an extra layer at the end where it goes from ugh, fuck this show, to Gahhh, my brain!! It dies!!!

EDIT;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

But yes, this is a thing, it's a shitty thing, and it always happens to shows I like. Buffy, for example (although I wouldn't be surprised if my nostalgic memories of Buffy are due solely to the nerdcrush I had on Alyson Hannigan back when I was six.)

I'll admit seasons 5 and 6 weren't great, but it got better again in season 7.

Pip Boy · 11-01-2010, 05:38 PM

There are two kinds of shows. Shows that look like a magical money pinatas, and ones that don't. The ones that don't look like magical money pinatas get canceled after 13 episodes by Fox. The ones that do look like magical money pinatas get beaten within an inch of their life by Fox so they can try and make the money come out. Both of these are prime examples of why fuck you Fox network you un-cancel Firefly right now dammit.

Specterbane · 11-01-2010, 06:06 PM

I think an interesting thing to compare would be the shows that seem to avoid this. USA had an amazing summer line up this past season with shows that have been going on for a while. Look at Psych, they're on their 5th season and I'd say season 2 was the low point for it (though I'm not caught up in season 5). And Burn Notice has arguably stayed pretty even keel rather than any going into sort of crazy death spiral that shows like Heroes get into.

If anything causes this I'd say it's the loss of a sense of humor. For me, Heroes started tanking as it went into the gritty-grim-dark-emo stages more and more; but I haven't cared about that for a long while so I'm not sure.

11-01-2010, 03:29 PM	#1
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	[tVtRoPEs] Let's talk about shows which follow this particular trajectory Show is good! Flawed but, on balance, enjoyable -> Show is shitty! But still fun to watch, mostly for the enjoyment of bitching about its many failings, with occasional glimmers of actual goodness -> ugh, fuck this show It seems like there are a lot of things which do this! Off the top of my head: Glee Battlestar Galactica Bleach* Why do shows do this? Am I right that these shows do this? Is this as particular a thing as I think it is, or is it just the perfectly normal arc for good shows turning into terrible shows? Is there anything at all to discuss here, or is this thread doomed to turn into a big circular jerking of people jerking in a circle? Who are these people, and what are they jerking, and why are they doing it in a circle? Whose hand do we expect to end up grabbing whose dick? STAY TUNED TO FIND OUT!!! a comic, but also a show! So it counts. __________________ check out my buttspresso* Last edited by Fifthfiend; 11-01-2010 at 03:32 PM.

11-01-2010, 03:43 PM	#5
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	I was actually considering Heroes as a counterexample because that show basically started out as equal parts "good" and "shitty but fun to make fun of", then it went to like "show is just shit but you kid yourself otherwise because you want it to still be good" and then it was just ugh, fuck this. Actually "show is just shit but you kid yourself otherwise because you want it to still be good" probably belongs in the initial show trajectory I laid out, probably either before or after the second step. __________________ check out my buttspresso

11-01-2010, 04:07 PM	#6
Archbio Data is Turned On Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,980	Edit: the middle part of the trajectory is a hugely subjective thing. I mean, did it amuse anyone else but me when Deep Space Nine became Klingon pornography before it was about Space Anti-Christ fighting Space Jesus? One viewer's curve is another viewer's plummet. __________________ 6201 Reasons to Support Electoral Reform. Last edited by Archbio; 11-01-2010 at 04:15 PM.

11-01-2010, 04:16 PM	#7
DarkDrgon Always Trick Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 978	I liked the third season of heroes, but I'm in the minority there. I'd put Heroes on the Good, interesting show>screwed by the network>Trying to get the old feel back>clusterfuck path __________________ [color=red] Kneel before the Lord Drgon, or you will be knelt.

11-01-2010, 06:06 PM	#10
Specterbane Safety First Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Land of Gumdrops and Ice-cream Posts: 746	I think an interesting thing to compare would be the shows that seem to avoid this. USA had an amazing summer line up this past season with shows that have been going on for a while. Look at Psych, they're on their 5th season and I'd say season 2 was the low point for it (though I'm not caught up in season 5). And Burn Notice has arguably stayed pretty even keel rather than any going into sort of crazy death spiral that shows like Heroes get into. If anything causes this I'd say it's the loss of a sense of humor. For me, Heroes started tanking as it went into the gritty-grim-dark-emo stages more and more; but I haven't cared about that for a long while so I'm not sure. __________________ http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...ostcount=10436

11-01-2010, 03:37 PM	#2
Token Magikoopa Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,789	You forgot Heroes. But yes, this is a thing, it's a shitty thing, and it always happens to shows I like. Buffy, for example (although I wouldn't be surprised if my nostalgic memories of Buffy are due solely to the nerdcrush I had on Alyson Hannigan back when I was six.)

11-01-2010, 03:39 PM	#3
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Marketing will force creative well-written nuanced shows to fall into chracter bawlderisation and stereotypical plots once it becomes clear which parts of the show sell the easiest to audiences. I don't watch any ofthese shows but this is possibly what going dowwwwwn.

11-01-2010, 05:38 PM	#9
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	There are two kinds of shows. Shows that look like a magical money pinatas, and ones that don't. The ones that don't look like magical money pinatas get canceled after 13 episodes by Fox. The ones that do look like magical money pinatas get beaten within an inch of their life by Fox so they can try and make the money come out. Both of these are prime examples of why fuck you Fox network you un-cancel Firefly right now dammit.