Knife of Dreams (Book 11 of the 10000000 Book Series) - Page 6

Gascmark de Leone · 11-17-2006, 05:28 PM

I have a question: These fantasy worlds are thousands of years old, right? Yet, with the execption of these steam wagons you speak of, there seems to be very little development of new technologies (i.e. the internal combustion engine, the rifle, hell, even the printing press)

gurusloth · 11-18-2006, 03:06 AM

Well, you don't need new technologies when you have magic (aka channelling). Also, in the WoT world there was a cataclysm not to long ago, so folks were sort of busy scraping out an existence for a while. Not a lot of free time to futz with new gadgets.

Demetrius · 11-18-2006, 03:21 AM

Umm... Let's reference the junk the Forsaken pull outta the stasis cubes (the glow bulbs for one) and the Universities that Rand is financing. I can't remember but wasn't there a meantion of a printing press as well?

(EDIT) Please tell me you have read the books that you are commenting on.

Magus · 11-19-2006, 01:50 AM

The basic plot (which I do not think is very spoilerish) is that 3000 years prior the planet was not only at the height of today's technology but actually advanced past due to Channeling, which made for all kinds of cool crap and abilities. But then there was a horrific war and cataclysm which I will not go into for fear of spoilers. So for probably 800 years or so after the cataclysm started it didn't let up, for one thing. So I don't see it too unrealistic that technology didn't readvance past medieval technology in the ensuing 2000 years or so. But anyway, read the books if you want the real low-down on "lack of advancement from ancient civilizations in fantasy novels".

EDIT: Oh and the ancient civilization had the equivalent of guns which were called Shock Lances, and cars and planes apparently, though I hope they had some sort of steampunkish or fantastical quality about them, because that's how I picture them. No other description of them is available. I assume that Shock Lance is either a medieval/made-up way of saying gun (like Ash's Boomstick is actually a shotgun), or it's some sort of energy beam shooting lance or lance that gives off an electric shock when stuck into people or something. Something rad like that.

Tiako · 11-19-2006, 10:53 AM

Also, it was stated that in the period after the Age of Legends (The Compact of Nations? I don't remember the name exactly) they were societally as advanced as in the Age of Legends and were developing technologies, but the Trolloc Wars ended that.

Magus · 11-19-2006, 07:50 PM

I hope some of these prequels Jordan plans to write if he lives long enough explain some of this stuff in better details. I think a War of the Shadow book is pretty much a given, and maybe one involving Artur Hawkwing.

42PETUNIAS · 11-19-2006, 09:09 PM

about analogies to other stuff, a friend gave me an immensely good explanation relating WoT to the Celts. He attached pretty much every major thing to something relating to the celts, i dont know much about it, and i forget a lot, but if anyone knows more about this analogy, or Celtic stuff, mention it. Apparently Rand is a major celtic hero, the name of which escapes me, aes sedai are druids, seanchan are the english, i think the aiel are the french, and on and on. I only remember a very small bit of it, and its probably partly wrong, but i do know that with all the information there is a really strong connection. spoilers end.

Also, i think right now (other than mat, with his kickass unit with crossbows, i love how they were decimating the bad guys so easily) is rand, probably just because how little hes featured now. but i do love how fricking beastly he is now though. That scene where he decimated the horde of trollocs was awesome. I hope it focuses more back on him, and that he becomes less whiney in the last book.

Edit: 23 times?! shit... Also, can people stop quoting spoilers? i dont really care myself, but it ruins the point of the spoiler cause it lets you see what it says.

Tophat · 11-20-2006, 12:43 PM

In terms of extra information not related completely to the main story, I'd like to see some more info on the Land of Madmen. Which is the third great continent (Randland + Aiel Waste + Shara being one and Seanchan being the other) which I only found out about in The World of The WHEEL of TIME. Or the age of ledgends and either the old Aiel or the Forsaken before they became evil.

Magus · 11-20-2006, 11:56 PM

I have a feeling this Land of Madmen isn't going to get worked into the plot. He has one more book and if he suddenly brought it up it'd be kind've weird. A prequel, though, or related novel, that'd be rad.

Tiako · 11-25-2006, 09:19 PM

The Land of the Madmen doesn't have very many literary possibilities unless RJ makes what is now the top of my list of books he needs to make: A Sea People's travelogue. We know the Sea People go everywhere, and imagine a Gulliver's Travels set in Randland. We could see the Shara, the Land of Madmen, one of the many outlying islands, and get a better grasp on the national cultures. I think that RJ has somewhat neglected his Randland Proper nations, and this would be the perfect way to correct it.

11-17-2006, 05:28 PM	#51
Gascmark de Leone Intercourse the Penguins! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Land of Wuz Posts: 326	I have a question: These fantasy worlds are thousands of years old, right? Yet, with the execption of these steam wagons you speak of, there seems to be very little development of new technologies (i.e. the internal combustion engine, the rifle, hell, even the printing press) __________________ At the end of the day there's another day dawning And the sun in the morning is waiting to rise Like the waves crash on the sand Like a storm that'll break any second There's a hunger in the land There's a reckoning still to be reckoned and There's gonna be hell to pay At the end of the day! Les Miserables

11-18-2006, 03:06 AM	#52
gurusloth Master of muthafu�%in' invisibility Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,224	Well, you don't need new technologies when you have magic (aka channelling). Also, in the WoT world there was a cataclysm not to long ago, so folks were sort of busy scraping out an existence for a while. Not a lot of free time to futz with new gadgets. __________________ Mashirosen: I personally will not rest until I have turned NPF into ___________I"My Little Pony Collector's E-Snuggle Social Club - No Boys Allowed"

11-18-2006, 03:21 AM	#53
Demetrius In need of a vacation Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Vermont Posts: 3,236	Umm... Let's reference the junk the Forsaken pull outta the stasis cubes (the glow bulbs for one) and the Universities that Rand is financing. I can't remember but wasn't there a meantion of a printing press as well? (EDIT) Please tell me you have read the books that you are commenting on. __________________ DFM, Demon seed of Hell who fuels its incredible power by butchering little girls and feeding on their innocence. Demetrius, Dark clown of the netherworld, a being of incalculable debauchery and a soulless, faceless evil as old as time itself. Zilla, The chick. ~DFM Wii bishie bishie kawaii baka! ~ Fifthfiend

11-19-2006, 01:50 AM	#54
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	The basic plot (which I do not think is very spoilerish) is that 3000 years prior the planet was not only at the height of today's technology but actually advanced past due to Channeling, which made for all kinds of cool crap and abilities. But then there was a horrific war and cataclysm which I will not go into for fear of spoilers. So for probably 800 years or so after the cataclysm started it didn't let up, for one thing. So I don't see it too unrealistic that technology didn't readvance past medieval technology in the ensuing 2000 years or so. But anyway, read the books if you want the real low-down on "lack of advancement from ancient civilizations in fantasy novels". EDIT: Oh and the ancient civilization had the equivalent of guns which were called Shock Lances, and cars and planes apparently, though I hope they had some sort of steampunkish or fantastical quality about them, because that's how I picture them. No other description of them is available. I assume that Shock Lance is either a medieval/made-up way of saying gun (like Ash's Boomstick is actually a shotgun), or it's some sort of energy beam shooting lance or lance that gives off an electric shock when stuck into people or something. Something rad like that. Last edited by Magus; 11-19-2006 at 01:54 AM.

11-19-2006, 10:53 AM	#55
Tiako FREEEEDOOOOM! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 286	Also, it was stated that in the period after the Age of Legends (The Compact of Nations? I don't remember the name exactly) they were societally as advanced as in the Age of Legends and were developing technologies, but the Trolloc Wars ended that. __________________ Red Mage: Every time there's an invasion by monster warlords, or an end of the world, they look for people like us. Black Mage: Well, not like us. Red Mage: Granted. Thief: Obviously.

11-19-2006, 07:50 PM	#56
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	I hope some of these prequels Jordan plans to write if he lives long enough explain some of this stuff in better details. I think a War of the Shadow book is pretty much a given, and maybe one involving Artur Hawkwing.

11-19-2006, 09:09 PM	#57
42PETUNIAS helloooo! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Court Posts: 2,816	about analogies to other stuff, a friend gave me an immensely good explanation relating WoT to the Celts. He attached pretty much every major thing to something relating to the celts, i dont know much about it, and i forget a lot, but if anyone knows more about this analogy, or Celtic stuff, mention it. Apparently Rand is a major celtic hero, the name of which escapes me, aes sedai are druids, seanchan are the english, i think the aiel are the french, and on and on. I only remember a very small bit of it, and its probably partly wrong, but i do know that with all the information there is a really strong connection. spoilers end. Also, i think right now (other than mat, with his kickass unit with crossbows, i love how they were decimating the bad guys so easily) is rand, probably just because how little hes featured now. but i do love how fricking beastly he is now though. That scene where he decimated the horde of trollocs was awesome. I hope it focuses more back on him, and that he becomes less whiney in the last book. Edit: 23 times?! shit... Also, can people stop quoting spoilers? i dont really care myself, but it ruins the point of the spoiler cause it lets you see what it says. __________________ noooo! why are you doing that?! Last edited by 42PETUNIAS; 11-19-2006 at 10:10 PM.

11-20-2006, 12:43 PM	#58
Tophat Shyguy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 143	In terms of extra information not related completely to the main story, I'd like to see some more info on the Land of Madmen. Which is the third great continent (Randland + Aiel Waste + Shara being one and Seanchan being the other) which I only found out about in The World of The WHEEL of TIME. Or the age of ledgends and either the old Aiel or the Forsaken before they became evil. __________________ From time to time Minutes and hours Some move ahead while Some lag behind It's like the balloon that Rise and then vanish This drop of hope That falls from his eyes

11-20-2006, 11:56 PM	#59
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	I have a feeling this Land of Madmen isn't going to get worked into the plot. He has one more book and if he suddenly brought it up it'd be kind've weird. A prequel, though, or related novel, that'd be rad.

11-25-2006, 09:19 PM	#60
Tiako FREEEEDOOOOM! Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 286	The Land of the Madmen doesn't have very many literary possibilities unless RJ makes what is now the top of my list of books he needs to make: A Sea People's travelogue. We know the Sea People go everywhere, and imagine a Gulliver's Travels set in Randland. We could see the Shara, the Land of Madmen, one of the many outlying islands, and get a better grasp on the national cultures. I think that RJ has somewhat neglected his Randland Proper nations, and this would be the perfect way to correct it. __________________ Red Mage: Every time there's an invasion by monster warlords, or an end of the world, they look for people like us. Black Mage: Well, not like us. Red Mage: Granted. Thief: Obviously.