Calling All Tabletop Gamers: I need your advice, please!

Lady Cygnet · 01-09-2008, 01:36 PM

I need help related to tabletop gaming products and services, and I can think of no better resource than my fellow NPFers. I have been given a research assignment by my partner. We're working on opening up a tabletop gaming business, but we need to know what we're facing in the terms of online price competition. I've gone through google, yahoo, and amazon to find competition, but I'm still not satisfied with my results; therefore, I'm asking for your input.

Our core products will be related to Magic: The Gathering, Yu Gi Oh!, HeroClix, and Dungeons & Dragons. If you play these games and you purchase your game equipment online (packs, singles, dice, binders, etc), where do you go to shop? Which shops have the best deals?

Since our previous deal for the store fell through (those of you who are friends with me on LJ know all of the gory details), we have to start from scratch and build our customer base from ground up. If you can give me any insights or suggestions that will attract a good crowd of game lovers to visit our store, play here, and choose our products over just buying stuff online and playing at random friends' houses, please let me know.

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-09-2008, 03:56 PM

Well I pay DnD so can talk about that.
For dice I don't know of anything who buys official dice sets from anywhere cause you can get cheap dice from warehouse stores for piss all and so these are not really an expense at all.
Books are interesting. We like the feel of hardback books so often buy them from real stores. Living in NZ this is cheaper than shipping themselves anyway.
Electronic books are usually somewhere between NZ$5-10, and direct from the publisher. Because of the OGL these are pretty much always done by people other than WotC. I don't know the status with WotC's own books but all the core books are free in pdf on their website.

Azisien · 01-09-2008, 04:05 PM

My local gaming store has prices near, but higher than, online stores. It also has areas for gaming anytime the store is open, and it holds occasional tournaments/weekend events. I don't go to them myself, but that's mostly because they're focused on Magic, and screw that.

I think the best "deal" that store offers, to me, is a handsome D20 collection (that includes Modern and supplements, and other books, not just Dungeons and Dragons), and a 15% preorder discount. Considering how expensive books can be, I've saved a decent amount by preordering months in advance.

I would say a strong website or advertising strategy coupled with a fun array of gaming events would attract customers and crowds.

TheWolf13 · 01-09-2008, 04:07 PM

For D&D books when I played I bought them at Barnes&Noble using their membership discount or from E-bay or Amazon and bought them used. I think when it comes to CCG's it is just as cheap to buy packs in stores than online once shipping is figured in.

One big problem with small businesses is that pricewise it is hard to compete with big businesses. It is better to have great customer service because you will draw in hardcore fans. I know it is cheaper to get my comics somewhere else but my local comic store guy loves comics and I love talking comics with him.

Having a place to play is also important. I love going into a store and seeing people playing games while the employee's are just hanging out offering advice or watching. Someplace with high visibility will bring lots of curious people who stick around when they see people having fun.

Organize lots of different events that appeal to different types of people. I went into our game shop one day and saw tons of old people playing Scrabble, Mah-jong, and Blokus. Turned out it was their family night and it was the most packed I ever saw the place.

I hope that helps a little bit.

Krylo · 01-09-2008, 04:14 PM

So are you opening an online store or a physical store? I ask because you said the deal for the store fell through, which makes it sound like a physical shop, and then you ask for online price competition which sounds like an online shop.

If you're trying to do both, I'd suggest doing one first and then the other, because both a physical store and an online store have their own complete different jobs to do--and while a couple can probably handle one or the other for some time by themselves or with minimal help, running both at the same time is gonna drive you guys insane.

I'd suggest either opening an online store and letting it run until you have made enough money to lease or buy (I suggest against renting, because then competition can just buy your store out from under you) a storefront and hire some employees to work there and on the online store, or opening up a storefront first and doing the opposite.

As for prices, if you're opening a physical store make sure you shop around and actually go into your competition's stores. There's more to it than just prices--where are they located? What kind of layout do they use? What kind of stocking system? Things like this will allow you to know what the customers you're going to have coming in will be expecting--and then allow you to do better.

For an online store you just have to make sure everything is easy to navigate and then have decent prices for the most part, yeah. I'd say learn from Amazon in so far as site design goes--as that it's their site design that made them rich and famous.

I can't really help you with specific prices, but most distributors you find will have an MSRP attached to each item, and it's usually not a good idea to vary much from this, as that some distributors actually have rules about selling within a certain percentage of the MSRP--so setting a price too low can be much more devastating to you than not having the lowest price goods, when your distributors lock you out and you don't have any goods at all.

Not all distributors have these rules, though, and you can easily find out if they do or not by reading their contracts. Make sure you do, as that they also tend to have other rules--some, for instance, require minimum delivery sizes of over one thousand dollars or more, and Wizards of the Coast--where you'll be getting your MtG cards and DnD stuff also require you have a gaming area large enough to accommodate three seperate gaming tables in order to be an official distributor of Wizards of the Coast items--which allows you to bypass things like their shipping limit... WHICH allows you to do things for your customers like special orders, which wouldn't otherwise be available.

I don't know how much of this you already knew, but I figured I'd spit out a bunch of helpful information on opening your own store...

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-09-2008, 04:19 PM

Also if you have an online store, the consumer needs to feel thier information is secure and they can trust your delivery.
To aid in this your site must look at professional as possible.

Demetrius · 01-09-2008, 04:51 PM

You really need to shop suppliers. What we see on the consumer end is drastically different than what the shop owners see. I would suggest putting in a call to WoTC and seeing how you would set up a commercial account with them or whatever publisher they use. I would also suggest supplementing your physical store with an online one as well. A fair amount of anime/manga is also a good staple, as it makes money fairly constantly, whereas straight gaming may not be as helpful (income-wise).

Holding many DCI sanctioned tournaments will be a big way to get people into your shop, as well as healthy stock of trade/buy cards. I think that your best bet on those would be some Ebay collection buys.

Lady Cygnet · 01-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

So are you opening an online store or a physical store? I ask because you said the deal for the store fell through, which makes it sound like a physical shop, and then you ask for online price competition which sounds like an online shop.

We're starting out with a physical store, and we may branch out into selling online merchandise at a later date. Our biggest competition right now is from online merchants, since there are no stores that offer what we offer within at least a 10-mile radius. There are stores that consider themselves gaming stores within the area, but they both cater to the comic book crowd and have lost their gamer crowds (some gamers even go as far away as 40 miles in order to play somewhere where they are treated courteously and have access to fun, fair tournaments and equipment that is priced fairly!). What we will be providing is the equipment to play games (packs, singles, binders, dice, etc) as well as a safe, clean, fun place for our customers to play, socialize, and take part in tournaments.

We plan on giving every customer the feeling that he is getting a good deal while still being able to pay the bills, get new inventory, and have the funds available to host fun, innovative tournaments and gaming sessions. I'm all for sticking as close to the MSRP, but we also have to convince our customer base that buying locally is a better, more cost-effective idea than ordering product online.

Thank you for your suggestions so far (especially you, Krylo--your advice is sound, and we've already done most of what you suggested). I'll keep on looking, comparison shopping, and working to make this store the best possible. If you have any other suggestions or ideas about what you'd like to see at a physical gaming store, please let me know.

Krylo · 01-09-2008, 05:11 PM

Yeah, I'm actually looking at opening up a store myself, that will be carrying tabletop games, as well as vidjamagames and animu merchandise. Probably some CCGs too, but I have to convince my partners that the profit margins are good enough to overcome our personal distaste of them.

01-09-2008, 01:36 PM	#1
Lady Cygnet Hasn't changed her avatar in years Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Beyond Thunderdome Posts: 1,234	Calling All Tabletop Gamers: I need your advice, please! I need help related to tabletop gaming products and services, and I can think of no better resource than my fellow NPFers. I have been given a research assignment by my partner. We're working on opening up a tabletop gaming business, but we need to know what we're facing in the terms of online price competition. I've gone through google, yahoo, and amazon to find competition, but I'm still not satisfied with my results; therefore, I'm asking for your input. Our core products will be related to Magic: The Gathering, Yu Gi Oh!, HeroClix, and Dungeons & Dragons. If you play these games and you purchase your game equipment online (packs, singles, dice, binders, etc), where do you go to shop? Which shops have the best deals? Since our previous deal for the store fell through (those of you who are friends with me on LJ know all of the gory details), we have to start from scratch and build our customer base from ground up. If you can give me any insights or suggestions that will attract a good crowd of game lovers to visit our store, play here, and choose our products over just buying stuff online and playing at random friends' houses, please let me know.

01-09-2008, 04:14 PM	#5
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	So are you opening an online store or a physical store? I ask because you said the deal for the store fell through, which makes it sound like a physical shop, and then you ask for online price competition which sounds like an online shop. If you're trying to do both, I'd suggest doing one first and then the other, because both a physical store and an online store have their own complete different jobs to do--and while a couple can probably handle one or the other for some time by themselves or with minimal help, running both at the same time is gonna drive you guys insane. I'd suggest either opening an online store and letting it run until you have made enough money to lease or buy (I suggest against renting, because then competition can just buy your store out from under you) a storefront and hire some employees to work there and on the online store, or opening up a storefront first and doing the opposite. As for prices, if you're opening a physical store make sure you shop around and actually go into your competition's stores. There's more to it than just prices--where are they located? What kind of layout do they use? What kind of stocking system? Things like this will allow you to know what the customers you're going to have coming in will be expecting--and then allow you to do better. For an online store you just have to make sure everything is easy to navigate and then have decent prices for the most part, yeah. I'd say learn from Amazon in so far as site design goes--as that it's their site design that made them rich and famous. I can't really help you with specific prices, but most distributors you find will have an MSRP attached to each item, and it's usually not a good idea to vary much from this, as that some distributors actually have rules about selling within a certain percentage of the MSRP--so setting a price too low can be much more devastating to you than not having the lowest price goods, when your distributors lock you out and you don't have any goods at all. Not all distributors have these rules, though, and you can easily find out if they do or not by reading their contracts. Make sure you do, as that they also tend to have other rules--some, for instance, require minimum delivery sizes of over one thousand dollars or more, and Wizards of the Coast--where you'll be getting your MtG cards and DnD stuff also require you have a gaming area large enough to accommodate three seperate gaming tables in order to be an official distributor of Wizards of the Coast items--which allows you to bypass things like their shipping limit... WHICH allows you to do things for your customers like special orders, which wouldn't otherwise be available. I don't know how much of this you already knew, but I figured I'd spit out a bunch of helpful information on opening your own store... __________________ I am very tired.

01-09-2008, 04:51 PM	#7
Demetrius In need of a vacation Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Vermont Posts: 3,236	You really need to shop suppliers. What we see on the consumer end is drastically different than what the shop owners see. I would suggest putting in a call to WoTC and seeing how you would set up a commercial account with them or whatever publisher they use. I would also suggest supplementing your physical store with an online one as well. A fair amount of anime/manga is also a good staple, as it makes money fairly constantly, whereas straight gaming may not be as helpful (income-wise). Holding many DCI sanctioned tournaments will be a big way to get people into your shop, as well as healthy stock of trade/buy cards. I think that your best bet on those would be some Ebay collection buys. __________________ DFM, Demon seed of Hell who fuels its incredible power by butchering little girls and feeding on their innocence. Demetrius, Dark clown of the netherworld, a being of incalculable debauchery and a soulless, faceless evil as old as time itself. Zilla, The chick. ~DFM Wii bishie bishie kawaii baka! ~ Fifthfiend

01-09-2008, 05:11 PM	#9
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Yeah, I'm actually looking at opening up a store myself, that will be carrying tabletop games, as well as vidjamagames and animu merchandise. Probably some CCGs too, but I have to convince my partners that the profit margins are good enough to overcome our personal distaste of them. __________________ I am very tired.

01-09-2008, 03:56 PM	#2
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Well I pay DnD so can talk about that. For dice I don't know of anything who buys official dice sets from anywhere cause you can get cheap dice from warehouse stores for piss all and so these are not really an expense at all. Books are interesting. We like the feel of hardback books so often buy them from real stores. Living in NZ this is cheaper than shipping themselves anyway. Electronic books are usually somewhere between NZ$5-10, and direct from the publisher. Because of the OGL these are pretty much always done by people other than WotC. I don't know the status with WotC's own books but all the core books are free in pdf on their website.

01-09-2008, 04:05 PM	#3
Azisien wat Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,177	My local gaming store has prices near, but higher than, online stores. It also has areas for gaming anytime the store is open, and it holds occasional tournaments/weekend events. I don't go to them myself, but that's mostly because they're focused on Magic, and screw that. I think the best "deal" that store offers, to me, is a handsome D20 collection (that includes Modern and supplements, and other books, not just Dungeons and Dragons), and a 15% preorder discount. Considering how expensive books can be, I've saved a decent amount by preordering months in advance. I would say a strong website or advertising strategy coupled with a fun array of gaming events would attract customers and crowds.

01-09-2008, 04:07 PM	#4
TheWolf13 Howdy Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri; Gateway to the west or something like that Posts: 179	For D&D books when I played I bought them at Barnes&Noble using their membership discount or from E-bay or Amazon and bought them used. I think when it comes to CCG's it is just as cheap to buy packs in stores than online once shipping is figured in. One big problem with small businesses is that pricewise it is hard to compete with big businesses. It is better to have great customer service because you will draw in hardcore fans. I know it is cheaper to get my comics somewhere else but my local comic store guy loves comics and I love talking comics with him. Having a place to play is also important. I love going into a store and seeing people playing games while the employee's are just hanging out offering advice or watching. Someplace with high visibility will bring lots of curious people who stick around when they see people having fun. Organize lots of different events that appeal to different types of people. I went into our game shop one day and saw tons of old people playing Scrabble, Mah-jong, and Blokus. Turned out it was their family night and it was the most packed I ever saw the place. I hope that helps a little bit.

01-09-2008, 04:19 PM	#6
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Also if you have an online store, the consumer needs to feel thier information is secure and they can trust your delivery. To aid in this your site must look at professional as possible.