Amputate your legs and you'll run faster

MasterOfMagic · 01-14-2008, 03:20 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ics/index.html

Apparently the prosthetic legs they've come up with are more efficient than the real thing, according to one study, so they're not letting a double-amputee compete in the Olympics.

Its...kinda silly, don't ya think? :P If the study is right (which is debatable, I believe), I can see where they're coming from, but I 'unno. I still strikes me as funny.

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-14-2008, 03:26 PM

What's silly? That they don't let him run?
Clearly his leg attachments are performance enhancing. Cause he couldn't run without them.
And I saw them on the news back when he first applied. They look pretty efficient. All streamlined and stuff, unlike nobbly legs.

adamark · 01-14-2008, 03:34 PM

I wouldn't let someone with one prosthetic run in the olympics, either.

Imagine if someone lost their hand in an accident and got a bionic claw. Quite an advantage for certain gymnastics that require a strong grip, wouldn't you say?

What if I lost half my brain and had a super computer installed in there, would it be fair to compete in trivia shows like Jeopardy?

The spirit of the olympics is pushing the human body to its limit. Someone like this *is* pushing their body, but it's relying a lot on the material of the prosthetics, too. If he made a world record in running, can we really say he is the fastest human runner, or that the artificial legs did it for him?

Same reason we don't allow steroid use, because it's not natural.

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-14-2008, 03:51 PM

Well I mean they were running tests to see if biomechanically he had to expend more or less effort to run. Ie how much gain he got from moving the bits of the legs he had compared to a normal athlete.
But if he was allowed it would open a ridiculous window. And it's impossible to calculate such things anyway.

bluestarultor · 01-14-2008, 05:51 PM

Actually, it's very possible. He's not only expending less energy on coordination and balance, what with not having knees, ankles, or toes to worry about, or any of the respective muscles controlling them, but there's also an easily measurable factor of energy absorption in his prosthetics. Obviously, since they're made out of some sort of fiberglass or plastic, it removes less energy from the system than flesh, neoprene inserts, and sole rubber. Plus, I saw a guy demonstrate how springy they were. Those things bounce like nobody's business. I'm not surprised they chose not to let him compete.

Mesden · 01-14-2008, 06:19 PM

His lack of ankles probably makes going around the curve an utter bitch, though.

POS Industries · 01-14-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesden

His lack of ankles probably makes going around the curve an utter bitch, though.

I was about to argue something along the lines of him being a sprinter and not being sure if there are curves involved in the (insert number here)-meter dash, but then I remembered that you actually used to do this stuff and decided to defer to your judgment.

But yeah, as bad as it makes me feel, I don't think it would be right to allow him to compete against organic-legged runners, either. The legs he uses to run are mechanically very different from normal human legs and are designed specifically for faster performance. Despite this being what would otherwise be a handicap, it's a distinct advantage in this event that isn't available to the other sprinters.

Xaeta · 01-14-2008, 07:28 PM

Whether or not his prosthetics are actually performance enhancing isn't quite what gets me about this topic. What gets me is that there is really only one source of this information, in which "IAAF based its decision on a study in germany by professor Gert-Peter Brueggemann. He found several indicators the Cheetah blades provided an unfair edge." This single source - while VERY credible - needs to have backup sources just to prove that he's right.

Now on this 21-year-old Oscar Pistorious...wow. The fact that he is willing to take this to the highest levels of authority just to run in the Olympics is what astounds me. I understand human ambition to succeed and do this-and-that better than the next man (or just as well) but to push it this much? Has he not realized that the Olympics are events to show the power of the human body with out any aids at all? It isn't often to likely to see slightly physically incapable people competing in the Olympics because they are physically incapable. It's not that they're singling these people out, it's that (the way I see it) they're just making sure the playing field is fair - for EVERYONE.

Now, the Paralympics are still running and he can still do that. It's as close to the real thing until he grows some new legs. It's horrible thing to say that but hell, it's the way the world is right now.

Professor Smarmiarty · 01-14-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Actually, it's very possible. He's not only expending less energy on coordination and balance, what with not having knees, ankles, or toes to worry about, or any of the respective muscles controlling them, but there's also an easily measurable factor of energy absorption in his prosthetics. Obviously, since they're made out of some sort of fiberglass or plastic, it removes less energy from the system than flesh, neoprene inserts, and sole rubber. Plus, I saw a guy demonstrate how springy they were. Those things bounce like nobody's business. I'm not surprised they chose not to let him compete.

But there are too many factors to fully calculate. You have to make a lot of assumptions. In this case the assumptions aren't case-breaking but in less extreme-cases it becomes more important.
It's a matter of precedent.

adamark · 01-14-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaeta

Now, the Paralympics are still running and he can still do that. It's as close to the real thing until he grows some new legs. It's horrible thing to say that but hell, it's the way the world is right now.

It's not a horrible thing at all to say, and you shouldn't apologize for your point of view, Xaeta.

The purpose of prosthetics is to give some capability back to disabled bodies. But that doesn't make them whole again. He is disabled, but with technological aids. Take away those "cheetah blades" and he's a leg-less man. If he is allowed to run with "cheetah blades" maybe I should be able to use my rocket bicycle in the competition. They are both technological aids.

01-14-2008, 03:20 PM	#1
MasterOfMagic ahahah Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,456	Amputate your legs and you'll run faster http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ics/index.html Apparently the prosthetic legs they've come up with are more efficient than the real thing, according to one study, so they're not letting a double-amputee compete in the Olympics. Its...kinda silly, don't ya think? :P If the study is right (which is debatable, I believe), I can see where they're coming from, but I 'unno. I still strikes me as funny.

01-14-2008, 06:19 PM	#6
Mesden There is no Toph, only Melon Lord! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inside of a box inside of a smaller box Posts: 4,310	His lack of ankles probably makes going around the curve an utter bitch, though. __________________ I can tell you're lying.

01-14-2008, 07:28 PM	#8
Xaeta I have a caffeine addiction. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Japan Posts: 563	Whether or not his prosthetics are actually performance enhancing isn't quite what gets me about this topic. What gets me is that there is really only one source of this information, in which "IAAF based its decision on a study in germany by professor Gert-Peter Brueggemann. He found several indicators the Cheetah blades provided an unfair edge." This single source - while VERY credible - needs to have backup sources just to prove that he's right. Now on this 21-year-old Oscar Pistorious...wow. The fact that he is willing to take this to the highest levels of authority just to run in the Olympics is what astounds me. I understand human ambition to succeed and do this-and-that better than the next man (or just as well) but to push it this much? Has he not realized that the Olympics are events to show the power of the human body with out any aids at all? It isn't often to likely to see slightly physically incapable people competing in the Olympics because they are physically incapable. It's not that they're singling these people out, it's that (the way I see it) they're just making sure the playing field is fair - for EVERYONE. Now, the Paralympics are still running and he can still do that. It's as close to the real thing until he grows some new legs. It's horrible thing to say that but hell, it's the way the world is right now. __________________ "If I had a reason for everything I did, I'd be crazy."

01-14-2008, 03:26 PM	#2
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	What's silly? That they don't let him run? Clearly his leg attachments are performance enhancing. Cause he couldn't run without them. And I saw them on the news back when he first applied. They look pretty efficient. All streamlined and stuff, unlike nobbly legs.

01-14-2008, 03:51 PM	#4
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	Well I mean they were running tests to see if biomechanically he had to expend more or less effort to run. Ie how much gain he got from moving the bits of the legs he had compared to a normal athlete. But if he was allowed it would open a ridiculous window. And it's impossible to calculate such things anyway.