Dungeons & Dragons 4E or how I learned to stop worrying and love the game. Maybe.

[Meister]

So before we start, I'm willing to accept that we all preordered at stores that broke the street date unless stated otherwise. If you're set on incriminating yourself I'm not gonna stop ya.

I haven't read the whole ruleset yet by far, just the basics, races and classes, but it certainly seems like a fun and also easy system. Every change I've seen so far makes sense. So yeah, I like it and hope my group can at least get a test game going.

I do have minor complaints:

- There are no explicitly nature-based classes like Barbarian and Druid yet. They're announced, but for now there just is no such thing.
- The rules do nudge you into a certain style of play. Not actually sure if that's a bad thing yet.
- I just had an awesome idea for a lizardfolk barbarian and now there's no barbarian and there's no lizardfolk. And it doesn't work with Dragonborn.

Thoughts from the resident D&D nuts who I'm sure spent a sleepless night or two combing through the books?

[Bells]

A query if i may...

Is there a better balance between races?

Is the magic system the same? Or they've simplified that too?

[Mirai Gen]

Not sure just yet, Bellsouth.

As for 4e I'm looking forward to it. I've seen the game mechanics played out and with the increased hit point system, AC, modified Fort/Ref/Will, and "Second wind" abilities. The key thing this does is gives players consistently multiple options for combat abilities.

Which means you don't have wizards whom are shooting crossbow bolts because they have no more spells, fighters who hit things and repeatedly because that's their job, and the like.

Also: has anyone heard about this third-party "3.75" like thing that they're doing for the purists? I heard of the concepts but a proper link would be nice.

EDIT: Magic system is changed. Most spells take the form of a "At Will/Per Encounter/Per Day" system. Wizards now get Magic Missile for free infinitely, but it's a ranged touch attack. They can also use Acid Arrow per encounter a number of times. Apparently fighters get something like this too.

Also, "Second Wind" is a self-heal you can use per-encounter a number of times. Cure spells restore a number of these depending on the level of the spell, which means that Cure Light Wounds used on a 20th level fighter won't cause the fighter to go "What the fuck was that? Use something useful, damn it. You basically just washed my hair."

[Meister]

Originally Posted by Bellsouth Minion

Is there a better balance between races?

Every race gets a +2 bonus to two ability scores and a few racial abilities. Except humans of course, they get one +2 bonus and the usual bonus feat style abilities.

Is the magic system the same? Or they've simplified that too?

It's utterly different. Every class gets a truckload of what's called "powers" as you progress. Spells are simply wizards' and clerics' powers.

Basing effects on caster level seems to be out on its ass. Say you have a wizard spell that does 1d6 + INT-modifier damage, that's the damage it does period. (And yes, that's the way spell damage works - a few dice + INT.) Some spells get their damage increased at a certain character level, but as far as I can see only once or twice. Like with my example you'd do 2d6 + INT from level 21 on.

I'm only looking at one page of low-level spells here, so there might well be differences in the higher levels.

EDIT: Mirai, I think strictly speaking there's no such thing as touch attacks anymore. However, all classes make attack rolls - fighters use their STR modifier to roll against the opponents armor class, but wizards casting magic missile would use their INT modifier to roll against the opponents Reflex score (yup, those are fixed now).

[Mirai Gen]

The main problem with alot of these conjectures is that most of it is based on leaked/released information based on low or high levels, and we're mostly making lots of assumptions that could probably be fixed by just additives or subtractions as the character grows in level.

[Bells]

Ok, here comes the Blasphemy:

So it's more like an MMORPG-style system now?

With classes getting powers over levels and powers getting more powerfull as you get powerfull (im sure there are passive and active effects there)

Heck i've been using something like that for over 6 years on my Home-made systems! Just hope their final polish makes it really good though...

[Meister]

Put it this way: everyone compares it to a MMORPG. Maybe it's viral marketing. I don't necessarily see what's bad about it, if push came to shove you could implement 3.5 rules in an MMO environment and it would work without necessarily turning the whole game into WoW 2. Though WotC aren't exactly helping their case with that whole D&D Insider business.

And anyway something about MMOs has to be fun or there wouldn't be millions of people playing them to the point where they opt for defecating in their footwear rather than get up from the computer, which is one element I can do without at the gaming table. But if, say, you like World of Warcraft for the mechanics but would like some more roleplaying elements, I think WotC has a deal for you.

[Mirai Gen]

That's what really annoys me about elitists whom prefer second edition to everything else.

Somehow "Simpler mechanics and a focus on character inter-balance" means "World of Dungeons and Dragons Craft Offline."

I'm not talking about you Bellsouth, (Since you were honestly asking) just the general trash-talking word that's being thrown around right about now with people who play games more as "Street cred" and less for fun.

[PurpleMage]

So Meister, I assume that I could probably get my hands on a copy of fourth edition even though "its not out yet".

Yes?

[Bells]

oh, no, i actually see it as a good thing... hey, it works on the likes of Kotor (totally D&D there...) and Never Winter Nights... a character sheet that evolves "by itself" in a logical path (and dosent require hours of tweaking and calculating) for me is actually better... more "in game" options = more steam to the game = more fun.

As long as the Tweakage stays an open option (but just an option) and the game dosent loose it's traits, i would say im already liking it!