Borderline Illegal Public School Practices

[FloralVikings]

I'm not putting this in discussion because I don't see a whole lot of reasonable debate involved: I figure a large portion of this forum, self included, is still in school, and almost nobody in high school likes being in high school.

So, anyway, on topic:

From what I understand, at my high school, or any high school for that matter, I can be searched without a warrant or even cause. I can be detained by campus officers without cause. My car, if it's in the school parking lot, can be searched without warrant or cause. My locker, my backpack, anything. Doesn't matter. This seems dodgy at best, if not a downright violation of the constitution, but I've had it happen to friends just because they smell like cigarette smoke (Which is how anyone with parents who smoke smell). Now, not only this, but if you are detained and you miss class, it counts against you as an unexcused absence, even if you were doing nothing wrong. That means you can lose exemptions from the final exam for the classes you miss, which means an extra week of school.

So I was just kind of wondering what other messed up things public schools are doing to kids. And if I'm totally wrong, please let me know so I don't keep bitching about it to my friends

[Eltargrim]

Hey, at least you got exemptions.

When I was in High School, I saw almost none of that. One of the worst things to happen in my school was the undercover officer who arrested an ecstasy dealer after he tried to sell it to her. Smelled a bit like entrapment, but our narcotics division had been keeping its nose pretty clean at that point.

Re-reading your post more closely, our lockers were also fair game for drug searches, but that only applied if you actually used your locker. There were other ways to keep your stuff safe and more easily hidden, too. I never heard of an unauthorized bag search.

In my final year, the school collaborated with two others to get a rotating police officer to come in. Personally, I never saw the point; he had a fairly fixed schedule, and there were easy ways to make drug deals without arousing suspicion. He was never in the classrooms, after all

But, after all of this, from what I've heard of American high schools, bitch away. Canada is still a step behind you folk on the degradation of civil liberties, but we'll catch up :\

[Doc ock rokc]

well...On the Search thing. When my sister was in high school she brought her brand spanking new digital camera to school.(explanation for doing so:I wanted to show it to my friends[/quote] she showed her all friends in the weekend. she just wanted to show it off)
anyway she left in a class the teacher knowing it was hers put it in her closet. a guy stole the camera out of the closet and put it in his car. then went to his last class (he had only five) before the class was over my sister and the teacher reported the camera was stolen and the 2000 Hidden video cameras got him in the act of stealing the camera and hiding it in his car from 20 angles. when his car was searched they found a bong and a good amount of drugs in his car (he was stealing for his addiction(s).)

But a few years ago in my school district they removed the Self-defense clause. (it used to be IF your back was in a wall or you where hit 3 times you are able to fight back with no legal action brought upon your self unless you hurt him to near fatal levels) and they day the bullies figured out what that meant then they started to wail on me when there was no cameras or teachers around then bring it out when i tried to retaliate or get away leaving his friends the only "witnesses" and the cameras on their side...meaning i get a week of In school suspencion for getting my ass kicked...

[FloralVikings]

Originally Posted by Eltargrim

In my final year, the school collaborated with two others to get a rotating police officer to come in. Personally, I never saw the point; he had a fairly fixed schedule, and there were easy ways to make drug deals without arousing suspicion. He was never in the classrooms, after all

We have... I think either four or five full-time campus officers. It's a 3500+ kid school. We have a huge coke and amphetamine problem, according to the district, even though I'd have no idea where to get coke and I know just about every dealer in my school. And of course we have an amphetamine problem, we're one of the highest ranked public schools in the nation, and the pressure to compete is ridiculous. People have killed themselves because they only made salutatorian.

If you're unfamiliar with the Texas to 10% rule, anyone who graduates with a GPA in the top 10% of their class is automatically accepted to all Texas universities no questions asked. This makes competition practically bloodthirsty. I've seen people break down and cry because they got a 96/100 on a test, because the top 10% in our school is something like 70 kids with perfect GPAs and 10 with almost perfect GPAs. I have a 3.8 and I'm barely in the second quartile. The fact is they drive the kids here to drugs, because it's infinitely easier to go with only 15-20 hours of sleep per week if you're going to town with Aderol, Ritalin, and Speed. I mean, they tell us every day from the first day we get here, work harder, work faster, take weighted classes, study more. It's ridiculous. I'm glad I escaped from it all.

[CelesJessa]

As far as the searching without a warrent, I'm not sure if it's that big of a breach of civil rights or whatnot. The lockers belong to the school, so they can look inside of them at any point in time. And as far as car(especially since the car is on their property) and self go, in the hierarchy of "personal items" that police can go through, they're pretty low on the list. As long as they have reasonable suspicion (which "reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder. It can be as small as you smelling like smoke or pot or whatever.) it's pretty much alright, legally. From what I remember from my government class, pretty much your house is the only thing that is super-hardcore about needing a warrent.

Plus, as a high schooler, you are probably a minor, which means you don't have all of the rights as an adult. I'm not sure how that all falls into the place of searching and such but... yeah, I'm not extremely versed in government, but I'm pretty sure what they're doing is legal. If anyone understand goverment better, feel free to correct me.

EDIT: Some useful links!

If contraband items are in plain view, then they can be seized without probable cause, reasonable suspicion, or a warrant.

Lockers: Although there is an expectation of privacy, it is low, and courts have generally upheld locker searches.

Purses and book bags: School officials need reasonable suspicion to search personal items.

...
Body Searches: Pat-down searches are minimally intrusive, but strip searches are seen as highly invasive.

http://www.centerforpubliceducation....ic_schools.htm

There is also a lowered expectation of privacy inside of motor vehicles. This "automobile exception" has been summarized by St. Mary's University law scholar Professor Gerald Reamey in "Reamey's Rule" as "never, ever, ever put anything in your vehicle that you do not want the police to see", although the Supreme Court's analysis is somewhat more nuanced.[citation needed] Nevertheless, a 'bright line' has been drawn at the doorstep of person's homes, however, so that whenever the government intrudes inside, their action is considered a search for Fourth Amendment purpose and must always be accompanied by a search warrant (absent exigent circumstances).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure (before anyone says anything, yes I know it's Wikipedia, but it echos when I learned in government class, so I'm going to trust it's at least partially reliable in this situation)

[TDK]

I've never seen a search performed that seemed particularly heinous, nor a drug problem above like half the people I know smoking pot, but every class room in my school has a sign on the wall that says something like "This room and those in it are subject at any time to random searches by federal officers" etc.

[Doc ock rokc]

Originally Posted by FloralVikings

10% rule

Fuck. Don't even get me started on that. I'm in the Top 25% of my school and the Majority of the Top 10 Have collapsed in front of me from lack of sleep or the stress.

[Odjn]

Originally Posted by CelesJessa

As far as the searching without a warrent, I'm not sure if it's that big of a breach of civil rights or whatnot. The lockers belong to the school, so they can look inside of them at any point in time. And as far as car(especially since the car is on their property) and self go, in the hierarchy of "personal items" that police can go through, they're pretty low on the list. As long as they have reasonable suspicion (which "reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder. It can be as small as you smelling like smoke or pot or whatever.) it's pretty much alright, legally. From what I remember from my government class, pretty much your house is the only thing that is super-hardcore about needing a warrent.

To be fair, schools are public property, as are streets, community centers, City Hall, muncipal buildings, etc. If that logic applied there, it would also apply there as well.

[Pip Boy]

I think locker searches should be fair game, since lockers are a space lent to students by the school. Cars, however, are an extension of the home, and searches of one's person are just plain invasive. Its no secret, however, that no one seems to give a crap about civil rights anymore, especially in schools.

[Meister]

Originally Posted by FloralVikings

I'm not putting this in discussion because I don't see a whole lot of reasonable debate involved

It just so happens...

I'm gonna leave 'em separate, I just thought that was funny.