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Unread 05-31-2009, 11:08 PM   #1
Eldezar
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Default Update On School Strip-Searching

Here is the original thread.

And here are some new articles that came up in the past two months.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/us/24savana.html
http://www.thehilltoponline.com/girl...week-1.1723400
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us....html?_r=1&hpw

some snippets:

Quote:
The search by two female school employees was methodical and humiliating, Ms. Redding said. After she had stripped to her underwear, “they asked me to pull out my bra and move it from side to side,” she said. “They made me open my legs and pull out my underwear.”

Ms. Redding, an honors student, had no pills. But she had a furious mother and a lawyer, and now her case has reached the Supreme Court, which will hear arguments on April 21.

The case will require the justices to consider the thorny question of just how much leeway school officials should have in policing zero-tolerance policies for drugs and violence, and the court is likely to provide important guidance to schools around the nation.

...

Justice Breyer elaborated on what children put in their underwear. “In my experience when I was 8 or 10 or 12 years old, you know, we did take our clothes off once a day,” he said. “We changed for gym, O.K.? And in my experience, too, people did sometimes stick things in my underwear.”

The courtroom rocked with laughter, and the justice grew a little flustered at having apparently misspoken.

While Supreme Court arguments can often be bone-dry exercises in statutory exegesis and doctrinal refinement, Tuesday’s session was grounded in vivid facts: school snitches, drugs, underwear and body cavities.

None of the lawyers had a particularly easy time of it. Matthew W. Wright, representing the school district, said that intimate searches should be allowed even for the most common over-the-counter drugs.

...

“You search in the student’s pack, you search the student’s outer garments, and you have a reasonable suspicion that the student has drugs,” he said. “Don’t you have, after conducting all these other searches, a reasonable suspicion that she has drugs in her underpants?”

“You’ve searched everywhere else,” Justice Scalia said. “By God, the drugs must be in her underpants.”
I still haven't found the official ruling, unless I missed it somewhere in the articles, but as far as I can tell their still discussing.
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Unread 05-31-2009, 11:33 PM   #2
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Question: Was Scalia being sarcastic? I can't tell. If he's being serious, that man....*ugh* I don't think he is, by how I'm reading that last article
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonin Scalia
“You search in the student’s pack, you search the student’s outer garments, and you have a reasonable suspicion that the student has drugs,” he said. “Don’t you have, after conducting all these other searches, a reasonable suspicion that she has drugs in her underpants?”

“You’ve searched everywhere else,” Justice Scalia said. “By God, the drugs must be in her underpants.”
Then again, the man is something of a hypocrite when it comes to privacy laws.

Lets parse this. 4th Amendment: Unreasonable search = bad.

Does one student saying to a teacher, "I got the pills from X!" in order to avoid punishment constitute right to search? My guess is that courts would say yes, regardless of whether the source is reliable.

Next question. You're going on a somewhat iffy tip on a student distribution some kind of pill. You search backpack/purse/pockets. I think we can all agree those are legally permitted, and even if we can't, the Supreme Court says it is, and so it must be.

No pills turned up yet. The question you'd have to weigh as a justice of the SCOTUS is this: At what point are you allowed to do a more intrusive search? Never? Only with a search warrant? With a 'reasonable' amount of suspicion? What constitutes reasonable?
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Unread 05-31-2009, 11:45 PM   #3
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There is no question in my mind that body cavity searches should be off-limits. That's just plain humiliating and unnecessary. At the very least, a warrant should be obtained and the parents should be not only informed, but given a chance to come over.

It really pisses me off that schools have become police, judge, jury, and executioner these days. I personally went to a school district that abused the hell out of it. Frankly, the place should really be shut down for all the crap they do.

The worst part is that this wasn't even over hard drugs. It was over ibuprophen, which is about as good at being dangerous to our youth as kids' vitamins, or less so, since the overdose rating is, I assume, lower than iron-related deaths. There was no reason the school should have had nearly that much leeway, and I sincerely hope the Court agrees with me and takes remedial action.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 10:50 AM   #4
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The way I'm reading the article is that they didn't know that they were ibuprofen, and that recently a kid had gotten sick off of some pills he took that he was given at school.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 12:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosMage View Post
The way I'm reading the article is that they didn't know that they were ibuprofen, and that recently a kid had gotten sick off of some pills he took that he was given at school.
I'm pretty sure they knew what they were, but schools have gone totally fascist over here in terms of medication. You can't even have cough drops on your person in many places. If it's any kind of medication, it needs to be kept in the nurse's office, with a doctor's or at least parent's note saying that it was given to you by an adult. This actually caused a lot of problems with a diabetic friend of mine, because the teachers didn't like releasing him so he could get his insulin, to the point where his parents told the school district that the teachers could either release him from class to get it or release him from class so he could go to the hospital and be treated for insulin shock, because he was leaving class one way or another (after which he was "expelled," no hearing, active student ID and lunch account, because they didn't want to deal with him).

The same applies to things like rescue inhalers for asthmatics, insulin and testing devices for diabetics, cough drops, aspirin, and everything short of Tic-Tacs.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 04:42 PM   #6
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All of which is just incredibly messed up.

The most extreme my school got was banning outside drinks for fear of smuggling in alcohol... but most of the teachers thought it was stupid and didn't even enforce it.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 05:04 PM   #7
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The high-school I went to did not allow us to have ibuprofen, etc, but they did allow things like rescue inhalers and epi-pens. Blue, I am surprised that your school was allowed/is allowed to get away with that, as without those it is not unreasonable to believe that a student could be put in a life-threatening situation, or even die.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 05:08 PM   #8
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My school didn't allow us to have ibuprofen or anything else. Even teachers thought it was stupid and you could pretty much get away with anything as long as you could show it was innocuous or you had a prescription. Or if you were known as a good student like I was (I once got yelled at for antibiotics, and I pretty much just ignored the person).
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Unread 06-01-2009, 05:12 PM   #9
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It's my opinion that allowing schools that much leeway is dangerous for larger reasons than just the emotional well-being of the nation's children. The way I see it, the courts' constant upholding of a school's "right" to interfere in the privacy of its students, which is something I feel only a parent should be allowed to do, (or perhaps a school, with a parent's case-by-case consent) and allowing them to otherwise rule over students completely, is indicative of a growing attitude within not just the schools and judicial system, but government in general, that any authority should be absolute authority. What's worse, whether by accident, coincidence, or intention, enforcing these unreasonable systems on these students in their formative years primes them to accept the idea later in life that they have to both literally and figuratively bend over, and take it.

Even people who like big government tend to agree, by and large, that there needs to be some limitation on government power. This attitude that schools have absolute authority over their students is anathema to the concept of limited government. A student literally has no rights at all in a modern school. I have NEVER seen a school handbook with a section detailing what authority figures within that school could NOT do to a student. However, there is a gracious plenty about what a student may not do, usually with the accepted implication that a failure to explicitly list any given activity as something that may be done means that it automatically belongs among the "may nots", even if it is not listed there.

Acclimating children to the idea that they absolutely must bend to the will of an authority figure in all circumstances, even if that authority figure is wrong, is dangerous to a free society. In this particular example, every student at that school is suffering an erosion of his or her consciousness of the idea that they have a right to resist unreasonable search and seizure and/or invasion of privacy.

I'm not advocating giving kids the right to refuse a reasonable search. Reasonable searches are just as important to the health and safety of free people as is the right to refuse unreasonable ones. If a kid smells like pot or crack, or is acting high, then by all means, he should be searched. Furthermore, in my opinion, every school that doesn't have a metal detector and at least two armed guards at every entrance should be shut down, but that's a different topic.
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Last edited by Spekkio; 06-01-2009 at 05:14 PM.
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Unread 06-01-2009, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rymramoch View Post
The high-school I went to did not allow us to have ibuprofen, etc, but they did allow things like rescue inhalers and epi-pens. Blue, I am surprised that your school was allowed/is allowed to get away with that, as without those it is not unreasonable to believe that a student could be put in a life-threatening situation, or even die.
My school district (which will not be named due to fear of defamation) was and still is very good about sweeping shit under the rug. My senior year, the only one where I didn't get pigeonholed into taking band yet again, the band instructor actually threw his two-legged stand into the ranks of sitting students. Nothing came of it. In fact the idiots were all so brainwashed that they defended him for it. (That brainwashing was part of the reason I left, because I didn't fall into it and made it a point to call him out on his bullshit, but nobody else seemed to be able to pull themselves away from worshiping him to notice.)

I've known or met several people who were falsely expelled, had their lockers cleaned out under school authority and got their stuff stolen by the people doing it, and other things of illegal nature. I have never heard of any school getting away with what they do, but they're an incredibly powerful enemy. I was lucky to be a good student, which was a ticket onto their good side, which gave me a lot of leeway.
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