Real Westerns

The Sevenshot Kid · 08-29-2010, 08:03 PM

I'm a huge fan of Westerns and I have been since I was pretty young but there is something about them these days that really irks me. Hollywood doesn't make them anymore. Not properly and not with the respect that they deserve. Jonah Hex, while a comic book adaptation, should have been a proper Western but instead we got a short piece of trash with no respect for the genre.

What the hell happened? There was a time that they cranked out a shit load of Westerns every year and they just gave up. We're lucky if we get one half decent one a year. The only movies that I can think of that have been the last real Westerns are "Unforgiven," "The Propostition," and "Appaloosa." Movies like "3:10 to Yuma" (the remake) are half decent action movies but they're not proper Westerns.

Is the disappearance of one of the most significant genres in American film just a result of the times changing or creative sterility when it comes to making an engaging Western?

Whatever the cause is, I hope they fix it soon because I can only watch so many Clint Eastwood's and John Wayne's before I start trying to eat my face. Any opinions on the decline of Westerns?

RobinStarwing · 08-29-2010, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gunslinger

I'm a huge fan of Westerns and I have been since I was pretty young but there is something about them these days that really irks me. Hollywood doesn't make them anymore. Not properly and not with the respect that they deserve. Jonah Hex, while a comic book adaptation, should have been a proper Western but instead we got a short piece of trash with no respect for the genre.

What the hell happened? There was a time that they cranked out a shit load of Westerns every year and they just gave up. We're lucky if we get one half decent one a year. The only movies that I can think of that have been the last real Westerns are "Unforgiven," "The Propostition," and "Appaloosa." Movies like "3:10 to Yuma" (the remake) are half decent action movies but they're not proper Westerns.

Is the disappearance of one of the most significant genres in American film just a result of the times changing or creative sterility when it comes to making an engaging Western?

Whatever the cause is, I hope they fix it soon because I can only watch so many Clint Eastwood's and John Wayne's before I start trying to eat my face. Any opinions on the decline of Westerns?

Hollywood is just lazy. Hell, they got the Coen Brothers remaking True Grit. It's like good war movies. The last one I saw that was half decent in recent memory was "Three Kings".

Yumil · 08-29-2010, 09:25 PM

Would you consider this a Western:o?

I only ask because one of the better known westerns, The Magnificent Seven, has quite a bit of Japanese influence as it was adapted from Seven Samurai. So, I don't see Japanese influence as a huge detraction from it(seeing as though it's an all Japanese cast...minus Tarentino...speaking English).

RickZarber · 08-30-2010, 04:03 AM

Also see A Fistful of Dollars, a direct remake of Yojimbo, which began the Western anti-hero genre. But Kurusawa was in turn heavily influenced by American Westerns, so it's kind of cyclical.

And I'd consider Sukiyaki Western Django more along the lines of an action movie with a Western setting (like the 3:10 to Yuma remake) more than a straight Western. Then again, we've already seen how the genre changed from the Wayne-esque Westerns to Eastwood-inspired anti-heroes. So maybe this high-action version is simply the modern iteration of Westerns.

And so perhaps that would mean the answer to Gunslinger's question would be "sign of changing times". I guess then we'd have to dig at the Why.

Professor Smarmiarty · 08-30-2010, 04:31 AM

I'm a big fan of acid westerns but they don't even really make those any more. Not since Dead Man have we had a proper one

Magus · 08-31-2010, 12:31 PM

Jonah Hex was a poorly made comic movie that didn't even follow the original elements of the comic (Hex never talked to any dead people, for example), so using it against the Western genre in recent times doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. While an element of unrealisticness in Westerns is nothing new (it's not like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly didn't have its share of anchronisms and general craziness), I thought they went a bit too far with mounting two gatling guns on a horse, frankly.

I think it's more that the examples you cited as being good are almost the only Westerns to have been made in recent years. The genre isn't as popular as it used to be. I'm hard pressed to think of a recent Western besides the four you mentioned, except maybe a few lower-key/budget productions not particularly worthy of citation (I saw one recently that had zombies in it, so I thought someone had finally gotten around to doing what I was trying to write a short story about, but luckily it was a fairly poorly made comedy movie, so maybe I can still churn a short story out before someone does a serious take on zombie-outbreak-in-the-old-west).

Besides which, I thought the remake of "3:10 to Yuma" wasn't as good as the original, just because I thought the irony of the ending of the original was a better capstone to the whole mess. Obviously the new one had a much higher dose of tragedy to it, though. Also the original "3:10 to Yuma"'s DVD has a really hilarious cover that makes it look like a light-hearted comedy along the lines of "Paint Your Wagon!" which probably makes people overlook it, so a remake revealing it as serious was a good move.

I saw "Sukiyaki Western Django" as more of a steampunkish sci-fi than an actual Western, like a live-action anime with Western elements, what with the one villain using a katana and a gun, having piercings, etc. The anachronism of Japanese actors using old-west pistols just kind of made it seem like it was in some kind of post-apocalyptic setting or something.

EDIT: As a side-note, the original short story of "3:10 to Yuma" was only about ten pages long and started out at the hotel so the movie is probably the biggest example of extrapolation from a novel I can think of, barring Coppola actually going ahead and writing the Godfather sequels, I suppose.

Azisien · 08-31-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yumil

Would you consider this a Western:o?

I only ask because one of the better known westerns, The Magnificent Seven, has quite a bit of Japanese influence as it was adapted from Seven Samurai. So, I don't see Japanese influence as a huge detraction from it(seeing as though it's an all Japanese cast...minus Tarentino...speaking English).

I had a hunch this movie would end up in here. Just so everybody knows, it's fucking awful. Not worth your time awful.

Magus · 08-31-2010, 01:08 PM

Eh, it had its moments, some of the acting/jokes weren't great, though.

Nique · 08-31-2010, 05:21 PM

I considered 'Back to the Future part III' to be a pretty good Western. That might just speak to how unfamiliar with the genre I am though.

Magus · 08-31-2010, 07:23 PM

Dunno, it had an attempted lynching scene, Indians, and a nefarious villain, I think it was an ode to earlier westerns but probably just because it was comedic and not serious. By those standards Wagons East and Almost Hereos are also great westerns!

08-29-2010, 09:25 PM	#3
Yumil Action Hank ain't got nothin on me. Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 527	Would you consider this a Western:o? I only ask because one of the better known westerns, The Magnificent Seven, has quite a bit of Japanese influence as it was adapted from Seven Samurai. So, I don't see Japanese influence as a huge detraction from it(seeing as though it's an all Japanese cast...minus Tarentino...speaking English). Last edited by Yumil; 08-29-2010 at 09:28 PM.

08-30-2010, 04:03 AM	#4
RickZarber Please Be Well Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,715	Also see A Fistful of Dollars, a direct remake of Yojimbo, which began the Western anti-hero genre. But Kurusawa was in turn heavily influenced by American Westerns, so it's kind of cyclical. And I'd consider Sukiyaki Western Django more along the lines of an action movie with a Western setting (like the 3:10 to Yuma remake) more than a straight Western. Then again, we've already seen how the genre changed from the Wayne-esque Westerns to Eastwood-inspired anti-heroes. So maybe this high-action version is simply the modern iteration of Westerns. And so perhaps that would mean the answer to Gunslinger's question would be "sign of changing times". I guess then we'd have to dig at the Why. __________________ Twitter / Art Tumblr / Personal Tumblr Last edited by RickZarber; 08-30-2010 at 04:21 AM.

08-31-2010, 12:31 PM	#6
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Jonah Hex was a poorly made comic movie that didn't even follow the original elements of the comic (Hex never talked to any dead people, for example), so using it against the Western genre in recent times doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. While an element of unrealisticness in Westerns is nothing new (it's not like The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly didn't have its share of anchronisms and general craziness), I thought they went a bit too far with mounting two gatling guns on a horse, frankly. I think it's more that the examples you cited as being good are almost the only Westerns to have been made in recent years. The genre isn't as popular as it used to be. I'm hard pressed to think of a recent Western besides the four you mentioned, except maybe a few lower-key/budget productions not particularly worthy of citation (I saw one recently that had zombies in it, so I thought someone had finally gotten around to doing what I was trying to write a short story about, but luckily it was a fairly poorly made comedy movie, so maybe I can still churn a short story out before someone does a serious take on zombie-outbreak-in-the-old-west). Besides which, I thought the remake of "3:10 to Yuma" wasn't as good as the original, just because I thought the irony of the ending of the original was a better capstone to the whole mess. Obviously the new one had a much higher dose of tragedy to it, though. Also the original "3:10 to Yuma"'s DVD has a really hilarious cover that makes it look like a light-hearted comedy along the lines of "Paint Your Wagon!" which probably makes people overlook it, so a remake revealing it as serious was a good move. I saw "Sukiyaki Western Django" as more of a steampunkish sci-fi than an actual Western, like a live-action anime with Western elements, what with the one villain using a katana and a gun, having piercings, etc. The anachronism of Japanese actors using old-west pistols just kind of made it seem like it was in some kind of post-apocalyptic setting or something. EDIT: As a side-note, the original short story of "3:10 to Yuma" was only about ten pages long and started out at the hotel so the movie is probably the biggest example of extrapolation from a novel I can think of, barring Coppola actually going ahead and writing the Godfather sequels, I suppose. Last edited by Magus; 08-31-2010 at 12:35 PM.

08-30-2010, 04:31 AM	#5
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I'm a big fan of acid westerns but they don't even really make those any more. Not since Dead Man have we had a proper one

08-31-2010, 01:08 PM	#8
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Eh, it had its moments, some of the acting/jokes weren't great, though.

08-31-2010, 07:23 PM	#10
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Dunno, it had an attempted lynching scene, Indians, and a nefarious villain, I think it was an ode to earlier westerns but probably just because it was comedic and not serious. By those standards Wagons East and Almost Hereos are also great westerns!