Publishing odds and ends

Bob The Mercenary · 10-10-2004, 11:02 AM

After I complete the mass amounts of overdue college work I've assimilated, I'll have enough time on my hands to finally start writing the book I've been planning for just about six years. I noticed that you (Brian) used iUniverse as the publisher. How was their service? I've been thinking of using them for a while, but a bunch of people have told me that, since I don't hold much popularity on the internet like you, I should write short stories to sci-fi magazines and web sites to get my name out their first. But I really want to write this thing now.

Kurosen · 10-10-2004, 11:48 AM

Independent publishing is a tough choice.

On the one hand, it gets your work out there and you'll have excellent control over it. On the other, you're going to be only one plugging it for sales. The good news is that it's becoming easier and easier to be successful through independent publishing. But you gotta work at it.

iUniverse in particular has a number of services that can help you. I only got a few of them -- namely the Marketing Products. It was basically a PDF file with a DOC file. You follow the instructions in the PDF and it helps you fill in the DOC. It feels a little, and sometimes a lot, like busy work, but it did an excellent job centralizing all the information I'd need for any kind of marketing or advertising campaign. Even though I don't need one exactly, it was quite handy. Besides, I gotta figure out a way to sell to the non-8BT fans when I mine all you guys! ;P

Their editorial review was also well worth it. Despite how very, very niche and unusual my book is -- seriously, how many books do you see about superheroes you've never of heard before -- but my editor gave nothing but good advice. It was clear she knew about comics, at least as a medium, and she could see what I was trying to emulate and what I was trying to avoid. You'll note Nuklear Age did not get their Editor's Choice award thingie. Basically, after the editorial review, I went through and made 90% of the fixes my editor suggested. The few changes I didn't go with had to do with preserving running gags, some comedic timing, etc. In order to get the Editor's Choice dealie, I would have had to resubmit it for editorial review. Doing so would have cost another X number of dollars and taken 2 - 4 additional weeks. As time was a concern, I opted not to go for the review. I'd made the vast majority of changes they wanted to qualify for it anyway, so I figured that was close enough.

So all and all, I'd say my experience with iUniverse was excellent. They're quick to reply to e-mails and very easy to get in touch with on the phone.

What may be the best option for you is to work on the story you've had bouncing around in your head. In between working on that, throw together some short stories -- ideally in a genre similar to it -- for submission to magazines, etc. The advantage you have is that you already know you want to get published, so you can work toward that goal from the get go. Building up a little resume of published short stories, even a handful, is a huge advantage over completely unpublished authors. Editors looking at the query letters for your book will see that other people took a chance on you and they'll be better equipped to know whether or not your work is for them.

Or, instead of going with a traditional publisher, you could try independent publishing once you've made a bit of a name for yourself in these magazines.

Whatever you decide, just know that it will be a long, difficult, incredibly aggravating road. You just have to stick it out. Maybe for years.

Bob The Mercenary · 10-10-2004, 12:03 PM

I'm as ready as I can be for that road. All I really want is my story out there. I've had a whole bunch of short stories also bouncing around in my head for a while, but none of them have to do with the genre of my book. If I worked at it, they could all be pretty interesting, though. You'd be surprised where I get my inspiration from. If I trip and fall down a flight of stairs I'll probably get enough material popping into my brain to outdo Encyclopedia Brittanica.

I looked over the iUniverse prices for their services and I would be willing to pay upwards of $900-$1000 to get it published. My mom's actually been pushing to get me to buy a $1200 car which I don't need, so I have some reserve funds to go nuts with. Heh, my mom doesn't even know I've been planning this, though. Actually, no one knows about it except the NP forumers. I might have told one close friend, but that's it. That would be so awesome if I got famous off of this. But, it would also be strangely ironic.

I'm more than willing to try going unpublished to an independant publisher to just wing it and see what happens. Maybe get a little advertising going in newspapers through reviews. I wonder how hard it is to get into their "gold star plan".

I'm estimating right now (based on a few other books I've read) that mine could very easily break 1000 pages. So I'm gearing up for a road ahead that seems to define "arduous". And I thought editing for your 600-something page story sounded like hell.

My Lead Airbag · 10-10-2004, 12:36 PM

Yeesh...a 1000 pages? That book is gunna cost a bundle...

Brian, just wondering (since you have to write because you love writing and all that), how much per book do you make? Or is it more like a lump sum at the begining type deal.

Illuminatus · 10-10-2004, 01:46 PM

Bob, if I were you, I would split that 1000 page book into to two 500 page books or even three 400ish page books. This is me speaking as a reader and a writer, not from any experience with publishing. Stephen King can publish 1000 page books, but a brand-spanking new writer going through an independent publisher is likely to have a MUCH harder time. Plus, unless I've heard of the author or am just extremely interested, I'm not likely to pick up and read a 1000 page book. That's ENORMOUS. 500-800 page books are big and I'll read those, but if I can barely hold the thing, I'm going to be intimidated.

Just my $.02. If you think you can go through with it, more power to you.

Kurosen · 10-10-2004, 05:03 PM

That's a good point about page count. Indie publishing large books like this is going to be expensive. Just look at mine. And traditional publishers tend to shy away from anything more than 200 - 300 pages from first timers (one of the many nails in my coffins). Just something to consider.

As for my payment, I get a percentage royalty on every sale. I actually forget how much that is and I see nowhere on iUniverse that reports this to me. They have a section that'll list your total sales and what you're owed, and everything, but the fourth quarter sales (beginning Oct 1st, which was the day I put up the first link to NA at Amazon) don't show up in that until mid- to late December. And then I don't get paid until the end of the next quarter anyway, which is in March '05.

Bob The Mercenary · 10-10-2004, 05:15 PM

I spent a lot of time thinking about splitting the story into more than one book. But, then I figured it would be harder to get readers to follow the story the whole way through. I thought that spreading it over a series would turn people off who just want one good book to read instead of starting a set of books by an author they've never heard of.

If I do end up doing something like that, I think a quadrilogy would best fit the story. My original plan was to write one book and split it into four "parts". I guess I could take each part and make it stand alone. But, then again, it might not even touch 1000 pages. Heck it might finish at around 500, I don't know, I've never written a book before.

My Lead Airbag · 10-10-2004, 08:38 PM

Well Bob think of it like so: with a 1000 paged book (biggest case), you're book is gunna be huge, ginourmous, grand in scope, etc, basically enough to crush the testes of anyone who would plumb its depth. Now, Brian's book is 660 for about 33 duckets, and yours is a little less than half that, so your price is gunna be a tad up there. So now your potential reader is confronted with a massive single read for a sizeable investment. That might be little enough to deter a Stephen King fan, but unless your popularity blooms in the whatever amount of time till then, people are gunna double think the choice.

Now, if its a series, be it two (two of the parts) or a part for each book, it'll be considerably cheaper, plus you can get a new cover for each and one of those nifty Part X of X notices on the spine.

That might be a tad dramatic, but I'm thinking not too dramatic. And I'm no writer or anything, just a longtime reader.

EDIT: Oh, and Brian, be sure to post your total earnings when you get them.

cross · 10-11-2004, 08:25 AM

I don't think the cost is associated with page size really. I think the real determinant is publishing companies. You see 200 page books like Clockwork Orange and Catcher in the Rye sell for 10-12 bucks and 600-800 page books like the Robert Jordan books sell for 12-13 bucks.

edit:// I agree that splitting your book up into shorter book series might be a good idea however.

Kurosen · 10-11-2004, 10:05 AM

Page count is an issue. But so are the dimensions of the book as well as how many are print at one time. Jordan's publishers can expect to always sell very many books to their suckers, I mean customers, so they can get away with printing in bulk. Meanwhile, most copies of Clockwork Orange or Catcher in the Rye are sold to relatively few highschool students.

10-10-2004, 11:02 AM	#1
Bob The Mercenary Bob Dole Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bob Dole Posts: 5,606	Publishing odds and ends After I complete the mass amounts of overdue college work I've assimilated, I'll have enough time on my hands to finally start writing the book I've been planning for just about six years. I noticed that you (Brian) used iUniverse as the publisher. How was their service? I've been thinking of using them for a while, but a bunch of people have told me that, since I don't hold much popularity on the internet like you, I should write short stories to sci-fi magazines and web sites to get my name out their first. But I really want to write this thing now. __________________ Bob Dole

10-10-2004, 12:03 PM	#3
Bob The Mercenary Bob Dole Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bob Dole Posts: 5,606	I'm as ready as I can be for that road. All I really want is my story out there. I've had a whole bunch of short stories also bouncing around in my head for a while, but none of them have to do with the genre of my book. If I worked at it, they could all be pretty interesting, though. You'd be surprised where I get my inspiration from. If I trip and fall down a flight of stairs I'll probably get enough material popping into my brain to outdo Encyclopedia Brittanica. I looked over the iUniverse prices for their services and I would be willing to pay upwards of $900-$1000 to get it published. My mom's actually been pushing to get me to buy a $1200 car which I don't need, so I have some reserve funds to go nuts with. Heh, my mom doesn't even know I've been planning this, though. Actually, no one knows about it except the NP forumers. I might have told one close friend, but that's it. That would be so awesome if I got famous off of this. But, it would also be strangely ironic. I'm more than willing to try going unpublished to an independant publisher to just wing it and see what happens. Maybe get a little advertising going in newspapers through reviews. I wonder how hard it is to get into their "gold star plan". I'm estimating right now (based on a few other books I've read) that mine could very easily break 1000 pages. So I'm gearing up for a road ahead that seems to define "arduous". And I thought editing for your 600-something page story sounded like hell. __________________ Bob Dole

10-10-2004, 12:36 PM	#4
My Lead Airbag Magikoopa Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,632	Yeesh...a 1000 pages? That book is gunna cost a bundle... Brian, just wondering (since you have to write because you love writing and all that), how much per book do you make? Or is it more like a lump sum at the begining type deal. __________________ Former Forum Names: BMHadoken, BiteTheWaxTadPole...krylo made me do it, really. RP Fight Lord RP Story Sage Retired.

10-10-2004, 01:46 PM	#5
Illuminatus The Dread Pirate Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the wild things are Posts: 1,310	Bob, if I were you, I would split that 1000 page book into to two 500 page books or even three 400ish page books. This is me speaking as a reader and a writer, not from any experience with publishing. Stephen King can publish 1000 page books, but a brand-spanking new writer going through an independent publisher is likely to have a MUCH harder time. Plus, unless I've heard of the author or am just extremely interested, I'm not likely to pick up and read a 1000 page book. That's ENORMOUS. 500-800 page books are big and I'll read those, but if I can barely hold the thing, I'm going to be intimidated. Just my $.02. If you think you can go through with it, more power to you. __________________ Man, n. An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what he thinks he is as to overlook what he indubitably ought to be. His chief occupation is the extermination of other animals and his own species, which, however, multiplies with such insistent rapidity as to infest the whole habitable earth and Canada. -Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary

10-10-2004, 05:15 PM	#7
Bob The Mercenary Bob Dole Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bob Dole Posts: 5,606	I spent a lot of time thinking about splitting the story into more than one book. But, then I figured it would be harder to get readers to follow the story the whole way through. I thought that spreading it over a series would turn people off who just want one good book to read instead of starting a set of books by an author they've never heard of. If I do end up doing something like that, I think a quadrilogy would best fit the story. My original plan was to write one book and split it into four "parts". I guess I could take each part and make it stand alone. But, then again, it might not even touch 1000 pages. Heck it might finish at around 500, I don't know, I've never written a book before. __________________ Bob Dole

10-10-2004, 11:48 AM	#2
Kurosen Hmph, what a waste of words. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,071	Independent publishing is a tough choice. On the one hand, it gets your work out there and you'll have excellent control over it. On the other, you're going to be only one plugging it for sales. The good news is that it's becoming easier and easier to be successful through independent publishing. But you gotta work at it. iUniverse in particular has a number of services that can help you. I only got a few of them -- namely the Marketing Products. It was basically a PDF file with a DOC file. You follow the instructions in the PDF and it helps you fill in the DOC. It feels a little, and sometimes a lot, like busy work, but it did an excellent job centralizing all the information I'd need for any kind of marketing or advertising campaign. Even though I don't need one exactly, it was quite handy. Besides, I gotta figure out a way to sell to the non-8BT fans when I mine all you guys! ;P Their editorial review was also well worth it. Despite how very, very niche and unusual my book is -- seriously, how many books do you see about superheroes you've never of heard before -- but my editor gave nothing but good advice. It was clear she knew about comics, at least as a medium, and she could see what I was trying to emulate and what I was trying to avoid. You'll note Nuklear Age did not get their Editor's Choice award thingie. Basically, after the editorial review, I went through and made 90% of the fixes my editor suggested. The few changes I didn't go with had to do with preserving running gags, some comedic timing, etc. In order to get the Editor's Choice dealie, I would have had to resubmit it for editorial review. Doing so would have cost another X number of dollars and taken 2 - 4 additional weeks. As time was a concern, I opted not to go for the review. I'd made the vast majority of changes they wanted to qualify for it anyway, so I figured that was close enough. So all and all, I'd say my experience with iUniverse was excellent. They're quick to reply to e-mails and very easy to get in touch with on the phone. What may be the best option for you is to work on the story you've had bouncing around in your head. In between working on that, throw together some short stories -- ideally in a genre similar to it -- for submission to magazines, etc. The advantage you have is that you already know you want to get published, so you can work toward that goal from the get go. Building up a little resume of published short stories, even a handful, is a huge advantage over completely unpublished authors. Editors looking at the query letters for your book will see that other people took a chance on you and they'll be better equipped to know whether or not your work is for them. Or, instead of going with a traditional publisher, you could try independent publishing once you've made a bit of a name for yourself in these magazines. Whatever you decide, just know that it will be a long, difficult, incredibly aggravating road. You just have to stick it out. Maybe for years.

10-10-2004, 05:03 PM	#6
Kurosen Hmph, what a waste of words. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,071	That's a good point about page count. Indie publishing large books like this is going to be expensive. Just look at mine. And traditional publishers tend to shy away from anything more than 200 - 300 pages from first timers (one of the many nails in my coffins). Just something to consider. As for my payment, I get a percentage royalty on every sale. I actually forget how much that is and I see nowhere on iUniverse that reports this to me. They have a section that'll list your total sales and what you're owed, and everything, but the fourth quarter sales (beginning Oct 1st, which was the day I put up the first link to NA at Amazon) don't show up in that until mid- to late December. And then I don't get paid until the end of the next quarter anyway, which is in March '05.

10-10-2004, 08:38 PM	#8
My Lead Airbag Magikoopa Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,632	Well Bob think of it like so: with a 1000 paged book (biggest case), you're book is gunna be huge, ginourmous, grand in scope, etc, basically enough to crush the testes of anyone who would plumb its depth. Now, Brian's book is 660 for about 33 duckets, and yours is a little less than half that, so your price is gunna be a tad up there. So now your potential reader is confronted with a massive single read for a sizeable investment. That might be little enough to deter a Stephen King fan, but unless your popularity blooms in the whatever amount of time till then, people are gunna double think the choice. Now, if its a series, be it two (two of the parts) or a part for each book, it'll be considerably cheaper, plus you can get a new cover for each and one of those nifty Part X of X notices on the spine. That might be a tad dramatic, but I'm thinking not too dramatic. And I'm no writer or anything, just a longtime reader. EDIT: Oh, and Brian, be sure to post your total earnings when you get them. __________________ Former Forum Names: BMHadoken, BiteTheWaxTadPole...krylo made me do it, really. RP Fight Lord RP Story Sage Retired. Last edited by My Lead Airbag; 10-10-2004 at 08:42 PM.

10-11-2004, 08:25 AM	#9
cross Stabbity balisong death Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Iowa State University Posts: 23	I don't think the cost is associated with page size really. I think the real determinant is publishing companies. You see 200 page books like Clockwork Orange and Catcher in the Rye sell for 10-12 bucks and 600-800 page books like the Robert Jordan books sell for 12-13 bucks. edit:// I agree that splitting your book up into shorter book series might be a good idea however.

10-11-2004, 10:05 AM	#10
Kurosen Hmph, what a waste of words. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 4,071	Page count is an issue. But so are the dimensions of the book as well as how many are print at one time. Jordan's publishers can expect to always sell very many books to their suckers, I mean customers, so they can get away with printing in bulk. Meanwhile, most copies of Clockwork Orange or Catcher in the Rye are sold to relatively few highschool students.